Classical Corner Classical Music Corner (thread #58)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by George P, Jul 23, 2014.

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  1. Joe071

    Joe071 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cayuga
    The Fricsay and Furtwaengler (1942) are my go to versions.
     
  2. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    See if you can find a clean "Tulip" pressing. That's one of the great ones and the sound on the original pressings is quite good. Find his later [1977] performance particularly interesting the first two movements where Karajan is channeling Bruckner. HIP 9'ths generally don't work out. Stokowski's LSO Phase 4 1967 performance is my overall favorite, but Karajan's 1962 performance is up there with the best.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
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  3. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    If I am not mistaken, you are referring to the guy Johann with the middle name Sebastian ... :winkgrin:
     
  4. Joe071

    Joe071 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cayuga
    Gotta Google him up, it may be him. :D
     
  5. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic

    Yes, Faure re-orchestrated the Requiem for full orchestra. This to me is the problem with the second version in that it was an afterthought. The Requiem works perfectly in the smaller original version because the ideas were scaled for those forces. Trying to upsize chamber works never works well.
     
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  6. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    I expect the orchestra to go ballistic in the last movement and HIP ensemble simply sounds too thin and lacks the dynamics and impulse of the modern orchestra IMO ...
     
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  7. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Was witness to a performance at one of the Berkeley Early Music Festivals in the 90's. The tympanist, using hard sticks and "period" kettledrums managed to sonically overwhelm the rest of the orchestra during his big moments. Mind you, it's entirely possible Beethoven wrote all that music with no real intent of anybody actually hearing it. :hide:
     
  8. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic

    Quite frankly the Beethoven 9th Symphony is one of the toughest works to find satisfactory recordings either because of performance or sonics. You would have a much better hit to miss ratio in the Dvorak Sym 9 also mentioned in this thread The choral finale places tremendous strain on the recording team and just as much strain on the vocalists. There is also a tendency for conductors and orchestra to overdo things in self conscious strivings to show the audience they really are storming Heaven. Oddly enough the somewhat similar Mahler 2nd Symphony seems much easier for conductors and performers because I have heard any number of good performances of that work.

    Be advised that many decent performances of the first three movements of the B9 fall apart in the Finale. More rarely a great Finale may be lessened by a mediocre performance of the first 3 movements. The 1962 Karajan is generally considered one of the few great recordings. Another one generally lauded is by Stokowski on Decca. After that you just need to listen. I pretty much only listen to the two I mentioned although Schmidt Isserstedt had a great Quartet in his Finale on Decca.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
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  9. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    I strongly second the 1962 Karajan LvB 9.
     
  10. ToddBD

    ToddBD Forum Resident

    Indeed…sometimes the orchestra "overplaying" like you mention brings too much attention to the fact that Beethoven was constrained to writing for the limitations of the natural horns and trumpets of his time, and in the Ninth, you can hear that he wants to do more with them in terms of their contribution to melodic content, but simply cannot. I have never heard the Mahler re-orchestrations of any of the Beethoven symphonies, but would enjoy listening to them for comparison purposes. Even though there were limitations to wind instruments in Beethoven's time, his approach to scoring is, well, pure genius, and if you didn't know there were limitations, you would most likely never hear it in the music…which is, of course, genius :)
     
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  11. Scott Wheeler

    Scott Wheeler Forum Resident

    Location:
    ---------------
    Oh for sure. What you have is perfectly fine and may or may not be better than any given original Decca that may fetch 1,300 bucks. I am still amazed at the premium original Deccas fetch when one can easily find the same exact pressing in the bargain bins for a couple bucks only in a different cover with a different label.
     
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  12. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Did you mean the Karajan 63 cycle? :hide:
     
  13. Casagrande

    Casagrande Forum Resident

    Recorded in 1962.
     
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  14. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    They were recorded between 1961 and 1962. It is quite possible that one or two were first issued in early 1963. Yes I think you do need to hide under the chair.;)
     
  15. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    But this 9th is included in the Karajan 63 Beethoven cycle ...
     
  16. bluemooze

    bluemooze Forum Resident

    Location:
    Frenchtown NJ USA
    This one? :)

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Rasputin had Melodiya LPs not intended for export in their 50¢ bin, I grabbed all I saw even there's zero notes in English. I'm finding out as I go along. I looked at one LP and guessed, somehow, it was Tchaikovsky's "Winter" Symphony, #1. Lo and behold. I'm going to guess this is the same performance I heard on an Angel/Melodiya LP from the early 70's. Sounds downright giddy.
     
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  18. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    That one.
     
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  19. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Now playing CD8 from the following set for a first listen ...

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    Coopmv,

    I think the point was that this is quibbling saying that it is only 1963 and someone is wrong to say 1962. The cycle was started in 1961 and completed in 1962. I can't remember now the issue dates of integral box sets of all 9 symphonies. One was SKL 101-08 and the other was DGG 62580 but one of these probably would have been released in 1963. Not recorded in 1963 but released in 1963 as a complete box set. The symphonies were released individually before any such integral box. I took a look at my copy of the Sym 5 and in the deadwax it says P1962.
     
  21. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Now playing CD37 from the following set for a first listen. 22 more CD's to go ...

    [​IMG]
     
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  22. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
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  23. bluemooze

    bluemooze Forum Resident

    Location:
    Frenchtown NJ USA
    You've got both cantata boxes? You are truly dedicated! :righton:

    A week ago I placed an order for this with Amazon France. It was being sold for 17 Euros but they had left off a zero and canceled the order. At full price it doesn't fit into my current retirement budget.
     
  24. bluemooze

    bluemooze Forum Resident

    Location:
    Frenchtown NJ USA
  25. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    No problem. That set is damn cheap, too. So I figure it's best to get the whole shebang, as the entire set (except for the rushed, ice cold 6th) is Superb!
     
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