Classical Corner Classical Music Corner (thread #6)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by coopmv, Jan 30, 2009.

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  1. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Sound is better and more consistent than Szell's, the refinement of the Tonehalle Orchestra is up there with Cleveland under Szell. Szell's performance of the Second symphony is my favorite in his set but Zinman's is just as good and not quite as musclebound.
     
  2. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011 Thread Starter

    Location:
    CT, USA
    I would not mind getting the Szell's set if I can get it for a good price ...
     
  3. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    What's your favorite Beethoven cycle right now?
     
  4. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011 Thread Starter

    Location:
    CT, USA
    I think this set by Harnoncourt is one of my favorites. The set by Gardiner is quite good IMO. I have both set ...
     

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  5. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011 Thread Starter

    Location:
    CT, USA
    I have every Beethoven cycle Karajan has ever recorded, including his 1955 cycle with the Philharmonia Orchestra on EMI ...
     
  6. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
  7. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Zinman's is closer to Harnoncourt's than any of the other sets, with very similar orchestral sound. Engineering is better [though Harnoncourt's is very good.] But, thanks to the use of a new Barenreiter edition of the score there are many passages that sound substantially different.
     
  8. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Oh, I love the muscularity of Szell's readings. Those performances are how I got to know the Beethoven symphonies. The sound is perfectly fine with me. I enjoy Toscanini's recordings from time to time, but not for everyday listening. My current favorite cycle is Wand's set on RCA, superb, exciting playing and fine sound IMO. The tempos are more middle of the road, but not boring by any means.
     
  9. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Still have the first set with the BPO, used to have the second BPO set but found it too slick, heard most of the Digital set when I worked at a record store and didn't like any aspect of it. The Philharmonia set is probably the best from a performance standpoint but the SQ is less than heavenly.

    The one severely underrated set is Cluytens with the BPO from the late 50's/early 60's.
     
  10. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    That one is a classic. Great intensity and power.
     
  11. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Have the Szell Eroica on SACD, probably the best sounding transfer of that performance I've heard so far. Managed to find a sealed copy of the original Epic release ages ago but that turned out to be off-center:shrug:

    One of Szell's very best recordings.
     
  12. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    It's a classic set. Beethoven must be very happy to see his symphonies (and sonatas, quartets, etc) so well served on recordings.
     
  13. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Probably the winner of the four—The old [highly derogatory albeit accurate description of political affiliation deleted] should have quit while he was ahead.
     
  14. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    If he was alive today he'd probably be screaming about missing royalty payments.
     
  15. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Yes, he put out so many gems in the 1960s and should have quit while he was way ahead.
     
  16. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Or anxiously scribbling on his chalkboard necklace. :)
     
  17. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    I've been listening to Marston's 'Claudio Arrau/Complete Pre-War Recordings' set on Marston.
    As usual the transfers are very good, but this one of rarer times that I keep wishing I could listen to the playing via a modern recording.
    The broad, almost impudent quality of the man's playing sounds like it could be a little hemmed in by the monophonic hiss and scratch, in this case. Usually it doesn't bother me that much.
     
  18. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Concur with Eddie Williamson that this is an incredible site.

    Looks like 45 different Eroicas have passed through my record collection through the years.

    You have to hear the Celibidache excerpt of the slow movement. Like the site says: "At this tempo, it might be a lost fragment of late Mahler, or even Webern."
     
  19. Bronth

    Bronth Active Member

    Location:
    Riga, Latvia
    Zinman? Well... A strange set, IMO, it's rather on over-hyped side. Tempi are more (Nos. 1-5, 8) or less (Nos. 6, 7, 9) OK, but very often music sounds a bit 'off' (if not completely alien) and simply under-charged, as it were a rule in itself. Yes, it's quite fun and quirky to listen to (esp. for the first time), and some new cadenzas (which, mind you, AREN'T Beethoven) sound almost revelatory (but again, only that of oboe on the 5th symphony hasn't worn out quite quickly for me).

    Overall, it seems to be a kinda 'fast forward Beethoven' for thoose who find these works too time consuming but still want to be 'in the topic'. So, so far I've bought only the CD with Nos. 5 & 6, mostly because of well balanced execution of the 5th. The 6th isn't bad either but there's too much approximation and the 'thunder' on the storm part sounds so light that it becomes almost a parody; the same, IMO, can be said about the Turkish march on the 9th - it sounds absolutely unnatural (despite the Gardiner's one sounded much better at a similar speed). Maybe I'll also buy Nos. 3 & 4 - the Eroica is rather well done. The 8th is also a keeper, but the 7th is almost an abomination - the 2nd movement is the worst of all I've heard.

    Edit: forgot to mention the sound on this one - I'm quite indifferent on it either. It's quite clear and lush, but it's a 'pocket Beethoven', it lacks the bite and immediacy of the Haitink and the resolution and dimensionality of Vanska (who's set, overall, I also find a bit over-hyped).
     
  20. Bronth

    Bronth Active Member

    Location:
    Riga, Latvia
    A have this one on a OOP French Sony CD (with only one overture as a coupling). Great rendition, probably my preffered version of the symphony at the moment. But it appears that I haven't found a 100% satisfying version of this piece yet (I also enjoy the latest Haitink and the Hanover Band).
     
  21. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Sure, I agree that the old mono sound in those days restricted things a lot. To this day, I can only enjoy listening to solo or chamber historical recordings, for the limitations are too glaring for me with the historical orchestral stuff.
     
  22. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Yes, my sampling of the Zinman/Gardiner crowd has always sent me running back to Szell, for his tempos are on the brisk side without sounding rushed to me. I can respect the intentions of the HIP crowd, but that doesn't mean I usually enjoy their recordings.
     
  23. Bronth

    Bronth Active Member

    Location:
    Riga, Latvia
    Then you may try the complete set recorded in 80's by quite small Hanover Band - these are slow HIP performanes recorded in nicely reverberant early digital sound. The brass occasionally sound a bit distorted on some passages (a obvious problem with genuinely old instruments) but there are several quite fascinating versions, I particulary enjoy Nos. 1-3, 5, and 7 (it really sounds as 'apotheosis of a dance', as it should). What's interesting with this cycle: it's mainly based on particularly developed at the time del Mar edition of the scores but has almost nothing in common tempo-wise with Gardiner and likes.
     
  24. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Good Morning! :wave:

    Yes, I'll keep an eye out, though I am very happy with the sets that I have (Barenboim, Karajan '63, Szell and Wand.)
     
  25. Bronth

    Bronth Active Member

    Location:
    Riga, Latvia
    Thanks, George, it's actually the time for dinner already. :) :cheers:

    I'm also quite happy with 3 complete cycles: the latest Haitink in hi-rez, the 70's Blomstedt and the moderately HIP'ish Hanovers. And there are countless separates which I continue to collect searching for new Grails... :laugh:

    Edit: Still want the complete mono Karajan with Philharmonia in its recent EMI version but there's no rush.
     
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