Classical Corner Classical Music Corner (thread #61)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by George P, Oct 3, 2014.

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  1. john greenwood

    john greenwood Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Actually the CSO is number 5 in the poll.

    Putting aside the question of what a poll like this really means, are you saying that an orchestra not placing in the top four is not worth listening to? That can't be because the Mariinsky that you reference on this page is number 14 - below no less than 6 U.S. orchestras.
     
  2. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    I have seen later ranking than 2008, though I am not sure if it was by Gramophone. Bottomline, few if any American orchestras ever broke into the top five in the world in the second half of the 20th century and I doubt the picture has changed much. For an American orchestra to ever get into the top three is like expecting the US soccer team to win the World Cup in the near future ...
     
  3. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    This may be the highest ranking CSO has ever achieved.

    I routinely listen to recordings by orchestra not highly ranked. I have many recordings by the likes of Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra, the Gothenburg Symphony, Dresden, the Gewandhaus, etc. often because of their conductors, but I am very selective. For early and baroque recordings, they are almost exclusively European.
     
  4. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    Oh, did I leave that out? Late night foggy head strikes again. Sorry!
     
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  5. Scott Wheeler

    Scott Wheeler Forum Resident

    Location:
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    I wouldn't complain either way. I think the idea of ranking orchestras is silly regardless of the results. I think even classical competitions tend to be fiascoes. At least then they have the competitors in the same room at the same time going head to head.
     
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  6. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    . . . uhhhhh . . .
     
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  7. Scott Wheeler

    Scott Wheeler Forum Resident

    Location:
    ---------------
    Who cares?

    How does this have any meaning? Orchestras are ever changing beasts.



    Actually money makes a huge difference. Musicians do like to make money. One of the things that did turn the L.A. Phil around was money. They are the highest paid orchestra in the world. And I doubt it is any coincidence that they have also recruited top talent. Sure it isn't *just* money but money does matter.


    Certainly you don't believe that these orchestras consist of purely regional members do you? Take a good look at the bios of the current L.A. Phil.
    http://www.laphil.com/philpedia/orchestra-roster
    About as international as it gets. Not that I am giving any credence to your anti American bias in classical music. I don't. But the idea that the members of an orchestra don't have classical music as a part of their culture because they are in an American orchestra is absurd.
     
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  8. Gaslight

    Gaslight ⎧⚍⎫⚑

    Location:
    Northeast USA
    On the playlist for this weekend (vinyl) - 1976 release:

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    I'd be curious. I have an unnatural antipathy for Karajan's Bruckner. I suppose in part because I think of Karajan as being an antipode to Furtwängler and I feel as though Furtwängler owns this music. But it has been ages since I've heard this record and it might sound different now.
     
  10. Gaslight

    Gaslight ⎧⚍⎫⚑

    Location:
    Northeast USA
    I'm definitely no expert - I had gotten this on the cheap and I like Karajan's Beethoven so I figured I'd give this a spin. I would say that, so far, it's similar to that work in its "feel", if that makes any sense.
     
  11. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    I suspect from your perspective you can see a lot more of what and who goes into a top-flight orchestra. I had a good perch when I was recording. A lot of players in groups like the Philharmonia Baroque are from Europe, a lot of American players flew to Europe for gigs. There's real money if you're really good and if you're that good you go where the money is. I don't think Stuart has an Anti-American bias [though he probably should know that a lot of Baroque ensembles are international with Americans too on both side of the pond] but I suspect he hasn't got as up-close and personal with the culture and people who are involved with orchestras as you have.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2014
  12. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    I am struck at how 'Brucknerian' the opening allegro of Beethoven's 9th Symphony is in Karajan's 1977 recording. And I mean that in a good way.
     
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  13. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    Oh, bother. Apologies again! It's our old friend PAG.
     
  14. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    PAG?
     
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  15. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    Yeah, you know, classical music's most celebrated gardener. ;)
     
  16. john greenwood

    john greenwood Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    OK - I give up.
     
  17. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    Percy Aldridge Grainger. The "gardener" of "English Country..." fame--although if memory serves he came to hate that trifle with a passion.
     
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  18. john greenwood

    john greenwood Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Would never have gotten it from the initials. I only knew of him as a composer.
     
  19. Soulpope

    Soulpope Common one

    Location:
    Vienna, Austria

    [​IMG]

    To my believe this one of the most impressive (complete !!) "Lemminkäinen Legends" available....
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2014
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  20. ToddBD

    ToddBD Forum Resident

    Indeed, you can hear a lot of Beethoven in Bruckner, and that was surely purposeful, Beethoven approach and style being a huge model for Bruckner.
     
  21. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Probably Charlie Parker's favorite [or at least most used] classical paraphrase.
     
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  22. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    I am just as American as you are and there is no anti-American bias here. I am just being fair-minded and have no problems accepting the generally accepted world opinions that most top flight orchestras are European. End of the story. As for ranking being meaningless, tell that to the academic world. My 12 year old nephew, who is very bright, born and raised in CA, has set his sight on a prestigious east coast university.
     
  23. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Excellent points and you have the perspectives as a recording engineer I do not have. Philharmonia Baroque Orchestra is no doubt the best American baroque ensemble. Nicholas McGegan was a flutist with the AAM under Christopher Hogwood and I have no doubt has attracted some freelance top talents from Europe. I do have a number of recordings by the Philharmonic Baroque Orchestra.
     
  24. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Now playing CD41 from the following box for a first listen ...

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Now playing the following CD from my Tchaikovsky collection. This might actually be the last recording made by Bernstein (1990) ...

    [​IMG]
     
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