Classical Corner Classical Music Corner

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by George P, May 29, 2015.

  1. Sunburst Finish

    Sunburst Finish Forum Resident

    This recording was a revelation - my thanks for bringing it to our attention - :tiphat: - I added links to the recording as it really deserves to be heard by a wider audience - the Seattle Symphony Chorale is much stronger than I would have anticipated. I have to admit that my knowledge of them was only in relation to an article in the New York Times about a Henri Dutilleux/ Maurice Ravel performance and the following day's "Sonic Evolution" project which featured Sir-Mix-A-Lot -

    Dutilleux and Ravel Mingle With Sir Mix-a-Lot

    There's actually a video of Sir Mix-A-Lot's performance of "Baby's Got Back" with the Seattle Symphony but I suspect that it may be considered as less than appropriate for this thread and so it shall remain without a direct link although it's rather a hoot and you can't help but laugh but decorum bests humour in such matters as these.

    Back to the Berlioz: Requiem, Op. 5, H. 75 & La mort d'Orphée, H. 25 (Live) -



    Grande messe des morts, Op. 5, H. 75 "Requiem": II. Dies iræ. Prose - Tuba mirum (Live)

    Grande messe des morts, Op. 5, H. 75 "Requiem": III. Quid sum miser (Live)

    Grande messe des morts, Op. 5, H. 75 "Requiem": IV. Rex tremendæ (Live)

    Grande messe des morts, Op. 5, H. 75 "Requiem": V. Quærens me (Live)

    Grande messe des morts, Op. 5, H. 75 "Requiem": VI. Lacrimosa (Live)

    Grande messe des morts, Op. 5, H. 75 "Requiem": VII. Offertoire. Chœur des âmes du purgatoire...

    Grande messe des morts, Op. 5, H. 75 "Requiem": VIII. Hostias (Live)

    Grande messe des morts, Op. 5, H. 75 "Requiem": IX. Sanctus (Live)

    Grande messe des morts, Op. 5, H. 75 "Requiem": X. Agnus Dei (Live)

    La mort d'Orphée, H. 25
     
  2. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    [​IMG]

    Just listened to a powerful recording of the second symphony from the above set.
     
  3. Scooterpiety

    Scooterpiety Ars Gratia Artis

    Location:
    Oregon
    As a lifelong fan of Galli-Curci (I have every one of her recordings on original 78s), I have often wondered why the 5 year gap between the two records. I need to check the recording ledgers, perhaps there were earlier attempts which were rejected.
     
  4. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    People like to argue about how she stacks up against such celebrated predecessors as Tetrazzini, but I think no one ever managed to project sheer joy in singing as well as Galli-Curci, at least before that unfortunate throat operation. I don't think she can exactly be described as "under-rated," but I do think she sometimes doesn't quite get her due, either.
     
  5. Scooterpiety

    Scooterpiety Ars Gratia Artis

    Location:
    Oregon
    I agree. Some modern listeners dismiss her as something of a "lightweight", I could not disagree more!
     
  6. Walter H

    Walter H Santa's Helper

    Location:
    New Hampshire, USA
    So this turns out to be an interesting bit of discography.

    Amelita Galli-Curci (vocalist : soprano vocal) - Discography of American Historical Recordings

    The first part of the Mad Scene is on matrix C-18587, the C of course representing a 12-inch side. On 10/30/1916 takes 1 and 2 are recorded, the next day takes 3 and 4, and on 11/7/1916 take 5. All these are unreleased. On 2/1/1917 we have the released take 6, along with unreleased takes 7 through 9. The second part of the Mad Scene is not attempted.

    Now for the electrical remake, per Victor's standard operating procedure the same matrix number is used, but it's now CVE-18587, the VE denoting the Western Electric system. Take numbers start where the acoustical ones left off, with takes 10 through 12 on 5/6/1926 and take 13 on 12/20/1926 recorded but not issued.

    The second part is attempted on 7/11/1922 (takes 1-3) and the following day (takes 4 and 5), on 12-inch masters C-26595, all unreleased. They try again on 9/20/1922, this time on 10-inch masters, using the same matrix number but with the 10-inch prefix, i.e. B-26595. But this time they start fresh with take numbers 1-4, and 5-6 the next day, take 6 being the one chosen for release. For the electrical remake we're back to 12-inch, and thus CVE-26595, but the take numbers continue from the old 12-inch version. Takes 6 through 8 are recorded 5/7/1926 but not released.

    This is why discographers are making a mistake when they drop those prefixes!
     
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  7. Scooterpiety

    Scooterpiety Ars Gratia Artis

    Location:
    Oregon
    I never understood why Victor used the same matrix numbers for re-recordings of the same selections. I can understand doing it if the recordings are made weeks or possibly even a few months later, but years later? And the same number for both acoustic and electrical recordings? Sometimes (but not always) Victor also recycled catalog numbers for different recordings of the same selection.
     
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  8. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    I didn't realize either practice was more than an occasional fluke. Recycling catalogue numbers seems to have been business as usual for Pathe, however, at least if you credit what I remember of the preface to Girard & Barnes.
     
  9. Victor Martell

    Victor Martell Forum Resident

    Well - this is... hmm.. a music forum attached to an audiophile site - seems to me that in general, audiophiles are not keen on historical releases - yes, kind of a generalization and there may be exceptions - obviously drh and probably others do - but just look at music reviews on audiophile publications - nothing pre-stereo...

    v
     
  10. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    Ah, but the lists were not from this site--they were from the French music magazine Diapason. As to audiophile publications ignoring pre-stereo recordings--well... not always. See, for instance, Classical Reissue Reviews Archives – Audiophile Audition
     
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  11. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    Luckily, the contributors to this thread do not ignore the many, many great historical recordings of classical music. I know that a lot of my own favorite performances for certain works are historical recordings.
     
  12. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    Note to George: I don't know/don't remember if you are an admirer of Lubka Kolessa, but the reviews I linked in my immediately preceding post include a 1936 radio performance by that pianist in the Mozart D Minor Cto., appearing for the first time courtesy of Pristine Audio. Must confess, the Doremi issue from some years back devoted to Kolessa didn't do a lot for me, but this one is part of an issue of material led by one of my "automatic want list" conductors, Max Fiedler, so I'm "automatically" interested. Do I remember correctly that you've had less than flattering things to say about Pristine's transfer philosophy in the past? I don't think I have any issues from that label in my collection at the moment. If I recall correctly, the Doremi (which, in fairness, included a different Mozart concerto also conducted by Fiedler) was toward the better end of that wildly inconsistent label's audio production.

    Edit; Perhaps of promise in the case of Pristine: the Fiedler set containing the Kolessa performance was remastered by Mark Obert-Thorn.
     
  13. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    Yes, I have sampled them many times and the work of Andrew Rose, who did the transfers I have heard, always sounds too processed and unnatural to me. I am not a fan of Doremi either and though it isn't saying much, their stuff at least seems less tampered with than Pristine.

    I have yet to hear a Mark Obert-Thorn transfer that I didn't like, though some of his have been bettered by Ward Marston. As long as Pristine didn't alter his work, I would think they would be well worth checking out.
     
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  14. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Now enjoying CD 01.
     
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  15. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    Thanks, George! I'll probably jump on the Fiedler in due course, and assuming I do I'll report back how the transfers sound.
     
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  16. Scooterpiety

    Scooterpiety Ars Gratia Artis

    Location:
    Oregon
    Toscanini looked at the score in later years and said something to the effect that he could not believe he wasted his time memorizing and conducting the work.
     
  17. Propinquity

    Propinquity Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gravel Switch, KY
    I recently got this 80s Japanese Melodiya CD of Rachmaninov's Vespers conducted by Sveshnikov. Apparently it is very hard to find. The version available on Amazon is pirated. Great performance!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    Cool!

    I have a recording of the same work with the same conductor and soloists, same label, from 1965.
     
  19. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    And now enjoying CD 02.
     
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  20. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    I suspect you are very right. I think when music and arts appreciation ceased being commonly taught in school, this did more than any single thing to cause this to be the case in the USA. A special ed school music teacher did a lot to help me appreciate fine music from young. Also, I got to attend a lot of music and arts programs when things were less regimented. This and my lifelong interest in good sound reproduction and music helped point the way to where I am today. I am fortunate to have been from this generation, do everything I can to cultivate future generations forward.
     
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  21. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    [:rant:]

    Schools may not be helping much, but we should not let parents of the more recent generations off the hook. Years ago now I purchased a small collection of 78 RPM classical records from a private seller who had inherited them from her parents. She said that they had known nothing about classical music but were determined their children would be exposed to it and learn about it. I think that attitude was not uncommon among their generation.

    By contrast, the analogous attitude that I often see today, including right here on the forums, is not that parents today are worried about ensuring their kids hear classical music, but that the kids grow up with a proper appreciation of the Beatles and The Rolling Stones and the rest of "classic rock." Classical music isn't even on the radar screen.

    Even if their budgets hadn't generally been slashed to the bone; even if they remained focused on Western classical music (not something that was true as long ago as the 1960s, at least in my elementary school, where mostly we sang dopey made-up songs from a bland "music" textbook); and even if they found an effective method to awaken enthusiasm for what, to most kids, is generally a strange foreign language, something most never managed even when they did have money and focus, music-in-the-schools programs could do only so much. If kids are to develop a love of classical music, usually it will be because their parents see to it that classical music is heard and valued at home. I don't think those conditions hold very often today. In a culture that ensures kids are bombarded on all sides by pop music everywhere they go, in every television show they watch (including those holding themselves out as "educational"), while classical music is heard only with positive effort from parent and child alike, is it any wonder classical music is not exactly a strong presence in their musical awareness?

    [/:rant:]
     
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  22. Bachtoven

    Bachtoven Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    The high school where I was previously an English teacher has a fantastic music program.
    1) Full symphony orchestra
    2) Chamber orchestra
    3) Baroque orchestra (period instruments)
    4) Symphonic band
    5) Jazz band
    6) Madrigal choir (Sang for the Pope once!)
    7) Treble choir
    8) Jazz choir

    Of course, they also have academic courses: AP Theory, Music Essentials, and probably some I've forgotten. So, classical music and music in general is alive and well in Davis, CA!
     
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  23. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    [​IMG]

    Gave this another listen last night. It's a bit up and down, with more ups.
     
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  24. Sunburst Finish

    Sunburst Finish Forum Resident

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  25. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    [​IMG]

    Now enjoying this lovely recording, which was recommended in this very thread by @Rose River Bear :wave:
     

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