Classical SACD and Conversation

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by layman, Jun 13, 2021.

  1. layman

    layman Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York, NY
    1st Listen Carl Maria Von Weber, Piano Concerti & Konzertstuck, Ronald Brautigam, Micheal Alexander Willens and the Kolner Akademie, BIS SACD:
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    I was mesmerized by the samples of this disc that I heard on Presto Music's site, so when I noticed that they were having a sale on BIS recordings, I ordered it and am now sitting down for a first listen.

    I love the opening movement of Weber's Piano Concerto No. 1 in C Major. I hear so much charm, wit, and harmonic invention in the music. I love the sound of the period brass used here by the Kolner Akademie and the period fortepiano played here by Ronald Brautigam sounds absolutely delightful! Even the most stubborn fortepiano skeptics and haters would be swayed (I think) by this performance. It just sounds (incredibly) right. The harmonic development in the first movement reminds me of music from Weber's "Der Freischutz."

    The 2nd (slow) movement sounds incredibly romantic. I find myself deeply moved. The music transports me. I cannot fathom why these Concerti are not as well known today as those of Mozart and Beethoven. They should be.

    I love the sprightly elan in the interpretation of the 3rd movement. I find Brautigam's playing quite magical. I also love the way that Willens & the Kolner Akademie bring out the dancing rhythms in the music. The music sounds very dramatic and theatrical...reminding me that Weber, like Mozart, must have worked out musical ideas for his operas in his Piano Concerti.

    The First movement of the Piano Concerto No. 2 in E flat major opens with that same sense of drama and theatricality. I love it! I also love the music's wit and charm. The music causes me to smile broadly. Brautigam sounds entirely at home in Weber's harmonically complex piano writing. He sounds masterful. I am just astonished (that pieces like this are not concert mainstays)!

    The warmth and romance in the 2nd movement remind of Weber's "Invitation to Dance." The music conjures images in my mind of firelit soirees...reminding me of the delight that people of the 19th Century (before electricity, before recordings, before tv....) must have experienced from (live) music. I would spend many, many an evening listening to this deeply moving music.

    I love the high spirits in the opening of the 3rd movement. I love the way that Brautigam captures the melodies and rhythms in Weber's music. I hear such wonderful rapport between soloist and orchestra. The music has a chamber music quality in that it seems written for musicians to enjoy rather than as a display vehicle for a soloist or to dazzle the public with musical sleight-of-hand (but the music still manages to do those things and to delight players too). I hear a profound sense of joy in this performance.

    I love the atmosphere and drama in the opening of Weber's Konzertstuck in F minor. I once again hear great harmonic invention and innovation in the way the orchestral and solo parts are constructed and woven together. Brautigam's playing sounds magical. He conjures the same element of fantasy and magic that I hear in many Weber works. I find myself transported to another world. I want to savor every note. I love the way the players bring out the rhythms in the piece. I hear such economy of expression (the ability to render musical ideas in a succinct manner) in Weber's musical writing (reminds me of Mozart). I like the way that the players bring out these qualities. This music seems to have it all...charm, wit, invention, drama...it's all there in perfect proportion. Brautigam, Michael Alexander Willens and the Kolner Akademie seem to reveal a new and enchanting universe of music in these Weber pieces. Wow! Just Wow!

    Dare I say it, but I think this music works better on period instruments. I have never heard a more satisfying recording of these pieces. Bravo!!!!

    This was recorded by BIS in 2018 and released on (hybrid) multi-channel SACD in 2021. I cannot recommend this disc more highly!
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
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  2. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    I've never heard the piano music from this composer. Ronald Brautigam has grown on me, I wasn't too fond of his Beethoven Piano Sonata cycle as it was very similar to Friedrich Gulda's Amadeo; uniformly very fast, hard hitting, lacking in nuance. On the other hand I've been pretty impressed with his interpretations in a few other things I've heard, I think the Beethoven Piano Sonata cycles just have such incredibly stiff competition.

    I bought this box last year after hearing the Diabelli Variations, it was simply phenomenal. He varies the tempos for each piece, each one sounds like an individual work but the whole comes together. It's sort of like Kovacevich's live recording on Onyx in how hard hitting it is and lively and spontaneous it sounds. This one I find better than Kovacevich's Philips recording which comes across as heavy. I've played Brautigam's over a half dozen times and haven't even got to the other SACDs in the box yet!

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  3. layman

    layman Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York, NY
    I will have to investigate that recording. I have been deeply impressed with many of Brautigam's recordings like his first set of Beethoven Piano Concerti for BIS and many of his older recordings for other labels. Brautigam, as in the Weber recording, continues to surprise (and delight) me.
     
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  4. layman

    layman Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York, NY
    2nd Listen Elgar Enigma Variations & In the South, Ashkenazy & the Sydney Symphony, Exton, SACD:
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    I heard the Enigma Variations playing on Sirius XM (a day ago). I really love the piece, so I stopped by my local Record Store after work (that evening) and found this SACD. I listened to the disc last night and I am listening again this evening. I can’t get the music out of my mind. I dreamed about it. I woke up humming it. I just can’t seem to get enough of it.

    The liner notes say this was taken both from live and studio takes (recorded in 2008 in the Concert Hall of the Sydney Opera House). The orchestra sound very realistic and nicely balanced. I like the way that the timbral qualities of the instruments come across in the recording. It sounds very true to life. I hear a really nice wide dynamic range captured in the recording. The vividness of the recorded sound and the crispness of the sonic image are qualities that I have noticed in several other Exton recordings that I have come across.

    I enjoy this interpretation a great deal. I like Ashkenazy’s attention to details in the score. I like the way that he and his orchestra bring these out.

    I have heard the piece “In the South” before but I don’t think I have ever enjoyed it as much as I do this recording. I hear the same attention to detail and excitement in the interpretation as I did in the Enigma Variations.
     
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  5. Galley

    Galley Forum Resident

  6. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    The Beethoven Piano Concerto set was one of the ones I sampled a while back, I am definitely going to pick this up at some point. As far as HIP goes I found the performances better than Lubin/Hogwood.

    One of my favorite discoveries as far as non-HIP goes in recent years is Yefim Bronfman and David Zinman which Hurwitz/Jed Distler had as their overall best cycle. It's not uncommon for me to disagree with both of them, but I really liked this set in this case.

    I've slowly been making my way through the Mozart Piano Concerto set from Brautigam, this one I don't find as much of a huge success as the Beethoven cycle, so I'm not so certain I'll pick this one up.
     
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  7. layman

    layman Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York, NY
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  8. layman

    layman Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York, NY
    I did not care for Brautigam's Mozart (SACD) cycle on BIS either (even though it's with the same forces who joined him for the wonderful Weber recordings). I bought two volumes and then gave up on the Mozart series. I like Bilson/Gardiner on redbook much better.

    I was deeply impressed though with Brautigam's Beethoven cycle on the modern piano (I have not heard his new fortepiano version yet):
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    Last edited: Jul 29, 2021
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  9. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    Ahh I see I was referring to the fortepiano cycle, I really liked it. I haven't heard the non-HIP cycle, I want to have at least one reference level HIP cycle.

    I'll have to give Bilson/Gardiner a listen, it was being discussed on another hifi forum where people aren't as critical of performances as they are of recording quality and people there greatly preferred Brautigam for recording quality. I'm more concerned about the performances.
     
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  10. layman

    layman Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York, NY
    I will have to get Brautigam's Beethoven cycle played on the fortepiano. If it's anything like the Weber recordings, I think I will like it.

    I like recording quality too but the performance trumps all. To me the Bilson, Gardiner (Mozart) cycle had it all...performance and quality. The Brautigam Mozart cycle sounded somewhat flat and uninvolving in comparison.

    If you are looking for a good Mozart cycle on SACD though, look no further than Peter Rosel's cycle with Helmut Branny conducting the Dresden Kapellsolisten. Rosel plays the modern piano but the Dresden Kapellsolisten are a HIP Orchestra. The recordings sound marvelous. It's not a complete cycle yet, but I hope that it will become one.
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    Last edited: Jul 29, 2021
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  11. layman

    layman Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York, NY
    1st listen Mahler Symphony No. 6, Markus Stenz & the Gurzenich Orchester Koln, Oehms SACD:
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    This (SACD) disc is from a series that Hurwitz summarily dismissed (without much explanation) in his recent rant on Mahler cycles. I came to this cycle rather late, after having been put off (a purchase) for years by dismissive critics. That was until I found a copy of Mahler's Symphony No. 4 from this cycle at my local Record Shop and took a chance on it. I was blown away! Since then I have been able to hunt down a few more entries in this (now out of print) cycle. Symphony No. 6 is the latest one. I listened to samples before I purchased this and I liked what I heard.

    So here goes...I like the way that Stenz and his orchestra bring out the marching rhythm in the opening of the 1st movement (Allegro energico). The snare drums sound very realistic. The bells also sound realistic and vivid. The overall recording quality has a vivid, crisp, colorful quality. The recording reminds me of the old memorex ads where the listener is blown out his seat! I am holding on for dear life! Stenz interpretation has a startling, arresting quality that has me on the edge of my seat! The string timber has that blooming quality that makes me think that I am inside the hall where this was taped. That is one of the beauties (and hallmarks) of SACD. I really like the way that the format captures string timber. It sounds very realistic.

    I like the way that Stenz and his orchestra handle the change in mood and tempo that marks the 2nd (slow) movement (Andante moderato). I love the use of the bells. I love the way that the music builds and develops. I like the way that Stenz brings out a majestic quality in the movement...the way that he allows an orchestral crescendo to build and unfold fully. It sounds breathtaking! The pastoral mood in this movement reminds me of the music of Ludwig Van Beethoven and Richard Strauss.

    I like the hammer blows in the opening of the 3rd movement (Scherzo). The bells chimes radiate through the mix like points of aural light. All the orchestral lines and textures sound so vivid and true to life. It's like sitting in the first rows of the main orchestra section of the concert hall. I like the way that Stenz brings out Mahler's musical logic...the way he allows the music to breath, develop and grow. I also like the way that he brings out the darker hues and moods in Mahler's music (as well as the bright, vivid ones). It makes for a rich and satisfying musical canvas.

    The 4th movement Finale (Allegro moderato) sounds exceptionally vivid and rich. The hammer blows and bell chimes in the development section of the movement sound arresting. There is so much happening musically but Stenz and the Gurzenich players make following the myriad musical strands and ideas easy to do. I hear exceptional clarity and balance and logic. The movement concludes in startling repose. I find the interpretation enthralling!
     
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  12. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    Thanks, I'm pretty much done with full cycles, I was mostly interested in one with fortepiano. I have three complete in Anda, Perahia and Schiff and don't listen to several of the concertos that often. I did end up buying Bilsons/Gardiner after sampling several of them, I agree with you that I found the performances on this preferable to Brautigam. I still find the fortepiano a bit meager sounding in tender moments like the adagio of PC22 so this will be only be for occasional listening. The fortepiano in Brautigam's Beethoven Piano Concerto cycle has a more substantial sound, I am guessing the reproduction used by him was mimicking the larger fortepianos that were around by the time Beethoven wrote those late concertos. I'll continue to buy individual CD/SACDs for my favorite concertos.

    Interesting to see the A. Lange & Sohne logo on that set, they make one of my dream watches... I can't quite bring myself to buy one though :)

    I listened to a bunch of Mahler on SACD as well - Honeck in the third and fifth (always wonderful to hear how damn good the Pittsburgh brass are and Honeck's interpretations are excellent), Bernstein NYPO fourth, and Zander in the third (first time listen).
     
  13. I only have a very few classical SACDs, but I treasure this one.
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  14. layman

    layman Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York, NY
    I think that the logo is an important clue that the Peter Rosel Mozart cycle is a luxury, spare-no-expense cycle. I have never heard a more beautiful sounding (and damn well played) cycle. Case in point, the adagio of PC 22. It made me weep! It took nearly 18 years (after the inception of SACD) but the wait was worth it. Rosel's is the Mozart Piano Concerti SACD cycle of my dreams! I just hope they finish it.
     
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  15. layman

    layman Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Mahler has been well served on SACD. I like all the ones that you mentioned...Bernstein in particular. I would also add Vaclav Neumann, Zdenek Macal, several of Ivan Fischer's Channel Classics recordings, several of Markus Stenz Oehms Classics recordings and the recent reissues (from Sony Japan) of incomplete (SACD) cycles by George Szell and Bruno Walter to the list.
     
  16. layman

    layman Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Thank you for the tip! I don't have that one yet. I will need to get a copy pronto!
     
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  17. :tiphat:
     
  18. Kal Rubinson

    Kal Rubinson Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Yes, so well served that it is almost an embarrassment of riches. Glad you discovered Stenz. The entire set is worth acquiring. Even Nott, Gergiev and MTT (good luck to him) are worth experiencing. FWIW, the Abbado's on BluRay are outstanding, imho.
     
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  19. layman

    layman Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Thanks a bunch. I like the term "emabarassment of riches." That's certainly the case with Mahler on SACD.

    I hope that SACD producers now turn their attention to some composers who are think are underrepresented on SACD like Domenico Scarlatti, CPE Bach, Haydn, Mozart (still waiting for all his operas to appear as well as a complete traversal of the Piano Concerti), Carl Maria von Weber, Rossini, Zemlinsky, Debussy, Enescu, and Khatchaturian.
     
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  20. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    Ah I see, I thought it was for the full cycle. I enjoy 22 and 23 quite a bit so I'll try and see if this available for sampling. What are your other favorite discs of Mozart PCs or cycles that aren't necessarily on SACD?
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2021
  21. layman

    layman Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York, NY
    That is an excellent question...I don't honestly think that I have heard any recordings (of cycles) that satisfied me more than Peter Rosel's (SACD) cycle (the recordings of Concerti Nos. 22 & 23 come conveniently coupled in his cycle). Rosel's cycle is incomplete though (three more SACDs would cover the missing concerti to make a complete set)...I have several complete cycles on CD...Perahia, Brendel, Anda, Schiff, Azhkenazy, Uchida, Barenboim, Bilson, Jando...and incomplete cycles from Imogen Cooper, Leif Ove Andsnes, Casadesus, Serkin, Pires, Argerich, Curzon, Goode, Anderszewski, Moravec...each have their strengths and weaknesses.

    The most nearly perfect cycle (to my ears) is that of Jeno Jando accompanied by Andras Ligeti and the Concentus Hungaricus (on modern instruments) on CD on the Naxos label, followed by Mitsuko Uchida accompanied by Jeffery Tate and the English Chamber Orchestra (on modern instruments) on CD on the Philips label, Malcolm Bilson accompanied by John Eliot Gardiner & the English Baroque Soloists (on period instruments) on CD on DG and Peter Rosel accompanied by Helmut Branny & the Dresdner Kapelsolisten (on modern instruments) on SACD...so depending on what I am in the mood for...modern instruments...period instruments...CD...SACD...that determines what I might lean towards on any given day.

    In terms of individual discs of Mozart Piano Concerti that really moved me, I don't think I have come across one that moved me more than Daniel Barenboim playing Concerti Nos. 22 & 23 accompanied by the Rafael Kubelik and the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra on CD on the BR Klassik label. I hope that this disc is still available.
    [​IMG]

    So here is my (rudimentary) ranking (of cycles):

    On CD on modern instruments:

    1. Jando
    2. Uchida

    On CD on period instruments:

    1. Bilson

    On SACD on modern instruments:

    1. Rosel
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2021
  22. layman

    layman Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Currently listening to Mozart Piano Concerti Nos. 17 & 26, Peter Rosel, Helmut Branny & the Dresdner Kapellsolisten, King Records SACD:
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    I like the bloom on the strings in the opening of the 1st movement (Allegro) of Mozart's Piano Concerto No. 17. I also really like the lively, alert woodwind playing from the Dresdner Kapellsolisten. I hear a sense of joy, alertness and swagger in Peter Rosel's entry. I hear a strong sense of connection between soloist and orchestra. They seem to respond, listen, think, and breath as one. It gives the feeling of listening to a large chamber music ensemble.

    I like the way the players handle the change of mood in the opening of the 2nd (slow) movement (Andante). All the players sound delightful but the woodwinds once again stand out for their engagement, liveliness and precision. I hear great feeling and emotional insight in Mr. Rosel's playing. His piano has a warm, incandescent tone that seems to enhance what he plays. He sounds like he is taking me on an (emotional) journey.

    I like the alertness in the playing of the 3rd movement (Allegretto). The players seem to share a telepathic sense of rapport with each other. I love the joy in their playing. Mr. Rosel sounds so alert, lively and engaging that I am finding myself (air) playing the computer keyboard and tapping my feet along with him.

    The opening of the 1st movement (Allegro) of Mozart's Piano Concerto No. 26 has a performers in the room quality (or perhaps I am in the room with them). I feel like I am in the hall where this was taped. I hear beautiful detail and bloom from the instruments. I can't help but tap my feet. Now Mr. Rosel has entered. I hear a sense of joy, command and alertness in his playing. I hear sparkle, effervescence and a (delightful) sense of humor. I hear these same qualities in the orchestral playing.

    I hear a songful quality in the opening of the 2nd movement (Larghetto). Mr. Rosel plays the opening melody and then the orchestra match the melody.... I hear a conversational quality between soloist and orchestra.

    I love the sense of rapport between the players in the opening of the 3rd movement (Allegretto). All the players sound so engaged and energized. I can't help but to tap my feet. The sense of joy is infectious. I feel the presence of...the composer. The players are channeling Mozart! They are bringing him to life! I couldn't be more grateful!
     
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  23. layman

    layman Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York, NY
    1st Listen Stravinsky Rite of Spring & Petrouchka, Karel Ancerl & the Czech Philharmonic, (originally Supraphon) Tower Records Japan SACD:
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    The tape hiss gives away this recording's analog origins. I like the motifs (played on the woodwinds) in the opening of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring. So far everything sounds highly musical. It's evident how much this piece "inspired" John Williams soundtrack for Star Wars. Now I hear the first stabbing chords. The transition into nuttiness happens very organically. I need nuttiness and savagery in my "Rites." This sounds like a very lucid interpretation. Mr. Ancerl sees to every detail of the score. I hear a sharp, incisive quality in the recording. I love the handling of the folk melodies in the interpretation. The performance is going full nutty! Now a recorder has picked up that plaintive folk melody. I love the way that Ancerl allows the savagery to slowly build to an earth-shattering crescendo! I love the way that the woodwinds heckle, taunt and shriek. The music seems to transport me to another galaxy. The music also tells a very compelling story. I love the way that Ancerl and his Czech players bring out the structure of the piece. I love the way that they emphasize the rhythms in the music. I am fearing that my neighbors downstairs may call the police at any moment! Yet, I can't bring myself to stop listening! This sounds truly savage and nightmarish. I love the way that Ancerl handles the (anti) climax. This piece must be the most monumental piece of 20th Century music, but how do you dance to this? The music sounds like it would blow dancers right off the stage! I can understand why that first audience rioted!

    I hear the same incisive quality (to the recording and interpretation) in the opening of Petrouchka. Stravinsky uses the children's melody in the same way that he used the folk melody in the Rite. For a "children's" piece, Stravinsky seems to infuse the music with a dark, infernal, sinister, nutty quality. This music would cause most children to cry and have terrible nightmares. I really like the piano playing in this interpretation. The woodwind playing (something the Czech Philharmonic are known for) sounds fantastic as well. The creepy subject matter of this piece reminds me of Bartok's "Miraculous Mandarin" (another "undanceable" ballet). This recording is another knockout for Karel Ancerl and his Czech players.

    This SACD seems to preserve the wide dynamic range of the analog original recording. These were taped in 1962 & 1963 but the strange mix of Cyrillic, Hiragana, Katakana and Latin scripts on the liner notes makes deciphering the remastering date difficult...but if I understand the Japanese date reversal correctly, these recordings were remastered (presumably in DSD) on April 10, 2019.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2021
  24. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    Fabulous, thank you! Do you mind posting the UPC barcode numbers for the Peter Rosel PC22/23 and the 17/26 disc? These seem to be hard to find and the barcode numbers would make it a bit easier. Strange that I've never heard of him, looking at his Discogs page he has a considerable discography and Discogs is no doubt missing a good number of his recordings as they're just not great for classical music.

    I will have to check out Uchida, I haven't bothered to hear these as I generally find her mannered ala Brendel but she is certainly capable of playing with some angularity like in the Schoenberg Piano Concerto, Berg Piano Sonata or Debussy's 12 Etudes.

    My listening from last night on SACD - PC 20, 27, this disc sounds better than the Esoteric SACD. I would have to compare it against the original CD to see what I think. This is one of my favorite performances of PC 20 even though I'm generally not a big Curzon fan.

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. layman

    layman Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York, NY
    The catalog # for Rosel's disc of Piano Concerti Nos. 17 & 26 is: KIGC-21

    I see that CD Japan still have this disc in stock:
    Mozart: Piano Concertos 6 / Piano Concertos No. 17 & 26 Peter Rosel (piano) SACD
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    The catalog # for Rosel's disc of Piano Concerti Nos. 22 & 23 is: KIGC-13
    CD Japan are sold out on this disc. Amazon US and Amazon Japan are also sold out but I see that Amazon UK, Amazon Germany and Amazon France have the disc in stock. These discs also turn up on Ebay from time to time. Disc Japan also seem to have the disc in stock:
    Peter Rosel - Mozart: Piano Concertos - SACD Hybrid

    The Dresdner Kapellsolisten's website also has info:
    Dresdner Kapellsolisten | Die Kapellsolisten

    Thanks for the tip on the Curzon disc. I will have to add that one to my list.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2021
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