Cleaning Vinyl With Distilled Water

Tell them what happens when you put too much photoflo on a negative and let it dry. (I used to do darkroom work myself).

 

If someone wishes to use Tergitol. There are so many varieties out there. Suggest you use TERGITOL™ NP-9 Surfactant, because this is the one that is water soluble (dissolves in water).

Although there are different kinds of Triton for sale, when you do a search for it, usually the search will come up with Triton X-100, so it is a little bit less confusing. Either one will work fine.

 

Plenty of streaks
I never suffered from this problem as all my 35mm/medium format negs were given the right dilution and dried in a durst film drying cabinet on a cool temp

 

Our chemist friend from AK comments on Dawn.

Part 1: "Forget the fancy commercial cleaners..I use a drop of Dawn in water"

You're doing it wrong!

"The active ingredient in most dishwashing liquids is Sodium Dodecyl Sulfate, or SDS (also referred to as “Sodium Laurel Sulfate”, or generally “alchohol sulfates”). This is a detergent with a charged, anionic headgroup (the sulfate). It is typically present in dish soap at 10%-20% concentration, the rest being perfumes, various alcohols and amines, colorants, occasionally antibacterials (e.g. triclosan) and, of course, water. Many people will use a drop of this detergent with distilled water as their cleaning solution. While it does an effective job, the introduction of a negatively charged compound promotes issues with static charge on the cleaned record. This can be heard as pops and clicks when playing and also causes the surface to attract dust and particles, exasperating the condition. Furthermore, the non-detergent additives in the mix (e.g. alcohols and amine oxides) are not desirable and do not completely rinse off the surface (If you doubt this, smell the record after cleaning with a perfumed detergent – your nose can detect the molecules left behind, even after pure water rinsing). Unfortunately the residual detergent and charge left behind have no odor. As an example, SDS is the primary ingredient in cheap shampoo and you can feel the frizz after washing with it as the charge is introduced, even after extensive rinsing. This is countered in the subsequently applied “conditioner” they sell you, which always contains cationic detergent alcohols to neutralize the charge and leave the hair feeling “soft”. Since people rarely follow record cleaning with a cationic or quat wash, they end up with a charged surface".

He then goes on to say...

(Then how do I do it right?)

"Simply use a non-charged (neutral) detergent. There are many to choose from but the most readily available are Triton X-100, Nonidet NP-40 and Tergitols. You buy them in 100% solution and must mix with water slowly to get them to dilute. Make a 10% stock in distilled water and store in a soap bottle.

Use at a final concentration of 0.1 to 0.5%. Hence, a 100 ml bottle of 100% will last a long time.

Don’t just take my word for it: This is the only type of detergent recommended by the Library of Congress and preservation specialists for vinyl records, and now you know some of the reasons why".

Tergitol and Triton X-100 are neutral, "non-ionic" detergent's/surfactant's, they dissolve in water but not readily like dish soap where the detergent has a polar molecule which attaches itself to water and dissolves almost immediately.

 

Never heard of it.

I am not a chemist nor am I an expert about cleaning records. I see so much overpriced commercial solutions that sell for high prices and const pennies to produce. Also there is so much misinformation in the D.I.Y. camp. THis is mainly due to people who have no knowledge of chemistry, making recommendations on how to clean vinyl, when their advice is somewhat misguided.

First off I am not buying any commercial solution because I already understand that they are mainly just another "audiophile" ripoff.

If I am going to follow the recommendation's in preparing a D.I.Y. RCL (Record Cleaning Solution), I am going to that advice from a chemist and audiophile.

Information that I have presented here is just information that I found to be relevant and available. I have no chemical background to make any recommendations of my own. I have just followed the recommendation of another and placed the information into the format that I use. I figured that If I broke it down into preparing a stock solution, then it could be mixed simply and quickly into a gallon jug of distilled water.

One the stock solution is prepared and on hand, then it takes all of two minutes to make a gallon of cleaning solution and you're ready to clean your records.

 

Regarding protecting labels when cleaning, if you use a basin w/ brushes type manual cleaner it comes with a cover to go around the label. I use the Vinyl Styl cleaner and have never had any problem with the labels getting wet.

 

Just received a gallon of Triton-X-100 earlier today. Took an empty gal. water jug. mixed 10 oz. of Triton X-100 to 90 oz. of distilled water to yield a 10% stock solution. I did add a few ounces of alcohol to help it dissolve.

Mixed up some for my housekeeper, who likes to use 50/50 apple cider vinegar and water mixture. Otherwise, I use it to clean the floors with the same ratio as I use to clean records.

Next up, I will clean some records with out a label protector and show the results. Let's see what happen's, shall we?



Warning label on back. Again, this is a repack from a chemical supply company.

 

I use the same solution I mentioned earlier, for record cleaning, for cleaning eyeglasses. Works like a charm. (I keep the spray bottle in the fridge to prevent mold growth).

 

Funny, I was having a similar discussion with my housekeeper only an hour ago. She had been cleaning for a couple of weeks until I just received the gallon of Triton X-100 in yesterday. I mad up a stock solution and put in into the water, apple cider vinegar and alcohol that she had been using for a couple of weeks now.

People sometimes have a thing about cleaning with vinegar as an alternative to using bleach. Both of which have a smell that is disagreeable to my nose.

Apple cider vinegar is not as strong smelling and has a smell like pancakes (or so says my housekeeper) and the initial smell disappears quickly.

My housekeeper asked my what she should use to clean the TV screen. Two things in her cleaning solution are not suitable for use on the TV. Those being acetic vinegar and alcohol.

I explained that I will make up a special mixture for cleaning the TV and the clear tops on the two turntables. I will make up a mixture of just a few drops of the Triton stock solution in pure distilled water. she can apply it and then wipe it with a damp cotton wash cloth, that is dampened with distilled water.

She told me that she was cleaning the screen with a paper towel just like she uses to clean her glasses.

I explained to her to never clean any plastic that has a smooth surface and particularly any clear plastic using paper towel's. That paper towels though they may appear soft, are made from wood pulp and are putting tiny scratches in the surface, every time you wipe with them.

If you do this over a period of time, your glasses will become "foggy" and you can't figure out why this is.

Always use a clean cotton cloth. If nothing else, use a t-shirt, but never a paper towel.

 

Awaiting @Steve Hoffman or someone to set the record straight. So many recommendations that inevitably a few are totally wrong.

 

SH does not recommend record cleaning. As specially when it applies to new vinyl.

 

I don't clean the screens of my OLED TV's. They look fine and one has been here for a year. If I ever need to clean them, it's going to be with EITHER pure water, or a polymer by the name of Meguiar's Last Touch Detail, misted onto a soft cotton cloth. I use that all the time on a variety of items, including nearly every day on our phones, tablets, and some medical device screens. That stuff is awesome.

 

Vs. paper towels, cotton is also a cellulose plant fiber, so one cannot automatically assume it is better. Cotton is just naturally composed of finer fibers, and is higher in alpha cellulose content, but also is less processed and refined in manufacturing.

Acrylic, as used for most clear plastics you might clean, is quite hard, but you also might encounter ABS or polycarbonite which will more readily be scratched by anything short of clean microfiber.

 

Cotton, microfiber cloths, are some of the best choices. We understand that cotton is made of an organic fiber, otherwise we would not be making clothes out of it.

The main thing to be aware of is NEVER use something that is made specifically out of wood pulp, which means no to any paper products, no matter how soft you might feel that your Charmin might be.

Always go for the better choice. This is not some expensive "audiophile" snake wood, just something that everybody has in their house already. Even an old T-shirt is preferable to paper towels (and I do like soft Viva paper towels).

 

When I was cleaning, I tested carefully for damage on parts (Inner groove area) of a new disk. Wiping anything wet or dry on that area left scuffs visible under magnification.

Remember that the groove area is not flat, and you're not playing the top anyway.

I concluded that wiping with anything was insignificant on the important part of the music groove

 

I just put a cotton bath towel down and pat it to absorb the excess moisture and set it up against the sofa cushions. They records are dry in only a few minutes, ready to be put into record inner sleeves.

When I was at the store the other day, they were out of distilled and most of the water. I bought some more and I am ready to do the cleaning experiment on some used records that I bought.

We will see what happens to the labels?

 

Its easy to test this, just take the softest paper product you, toilet paper or whatever. Rub it a bit on a blank record or on deadwax and you will easily see all the small particles building up from the paper against the pitch black backround, even though its completely flat and not rough on the paper at all. I sometimes use them to clean out really dirty plastic sleeves so I can reuse them for records I care less about, but thats about it.

 

Yes, stuff does rub off, not much that you can do about it.

 

I've made some revisions based on information referred to on this thread and the thread itself. First I ordered an inexpensive basin ($32) so that I can add a final rinse with distilled water followed by a second and final vacuum to completely dry the record. Second I have stopped using Dawn and replaced it with Triton X-100.

To make a 10% concentration of Triton I remove 16 oz of from a gallon jug of distilled water. Then I add 13 oz of Triton X-100 and 3 oz of 91% iso alcohol into the jug. I slosh it around a bit, but don't shake. At first I can see the thick Triton moving about but after a short period of time it appears to have mixed in well. I understand if I had not added the alcohol this would have taken a couple of days. Is 3 oz too much alcohol to add?

To then make my cleaning solution I take another gallon jug of distilled water and remove 17 oz. I replace it with 4 oz of my triton 10% solution and 13 oz of 91% iso alcohol. This I shake up. I've now got a gallon of solution that is 10% alcohol and 0,03% triton x-100 and just under 90% distilled water.

It takes me about 5 minutes to clean a record from the time I pick it up to the time I set it back down. Or, I can clean 6-8 in the time it take an LP to play both sides.

I put the record in my vinyl styl basin and turn it 15 times in each direction. This basin has goat hair brushes submerged in it. I take it out of the basin, remove the label protector and place it on the old turntable. I can see small particles that have been brought to the surface of the record. Had I stopped at washing and simply put in a rack to dry many of these particles would have remained on the surface and eventually worked their way back into the grooves. Once on the turntable I use my vinyl vac attachment on my wet/dry vacuum to clean the record. I turn it slowly twice in each direction, flip over and repeat. Then I place the record in my second basin that contains only distilled water. I do not use the brushes that came with it. I just turn the record in the rinse about 5 times. Then I put it back on the turntable and vacuum both sides again. If there is any moisture remaining I use a microfiber cloth to wipe it off and place the record in a new inner sleeve.

I'm always ready to hear any feedback anyone might have on what I'm doing.

 

Looks to me that you have it down to quick and easy. This is how things should roll. The main thing here is to get and keep your 10% stock solution. You just grab the jug of it, pull out the 4oz, that you need, make some room in a gallon of distilled water, add your alcohol and stock solution and you are ready to clean.

Good Job!

And, while you are excited about cleaning your record collection, don't forget that this makes a great household cleaner. Try saving your left over cleaning solution after you are finished cleaning your records, it should only have tiny amounts of debris from your records and try using it to clean your floors, counter tops, sink, etc.

We just mixed up a brand new gallon of cleaning solution for our house keeper to use. She loves it. We buy apple cider vinegar by the gallon and she replaces half of the water with the apple cider vinegar, but just using the same solution that you use to clean your records works fine too.

Try it after you finish cleaning a stack of records and see what you think. It only takes a small amount on a dry cloth to clean with and rinsing is unnecessary. Let me know what you think.

 

Thanks, I'll try it to clean my counters and mop the floors. How does it work on album covers? Your suggestions / advise has been very helpful. I wonder if one of those VPI / Nitty Gritty etc. machines can do any better a job than this manual process? I'm betting they don't.

 

I'm with you, on that. I don't see why a miracle vacuum style cleaning machine would clean any better. Since I have never owned one, I cannot comment on how they clean. But, would a car washing machine, clean a car better than someone could clean that same car by hand? People that I know that can afford expensive new or classic cars, never put them through a car wash.

There maybe something about a benefit of using a vacuum to vacuum off the water and debris from the surface of the record. If that is the case, a small D.I.Y. vacuum can be employed. My thinking is that most of any debris is removed when I rinse the surface of the record's in the sink either with the sprayer (mine doesn't hardly spray) or under running tap water, before I put it into the final distilled water rinse bath and swish it around. If someone wanted, they could use a 2nd brush to brush the surface again.

I just blot both sides with a cotton bath towel and the record air dries in minutes, I haven't observed any streaking or residue.

Here's what I will do, I plan on cleaning some $2.00 used records today without using my record label protector to see if it damages any records. I will use some of the cleaning solution on a couple of album covers to see how that works. As an experiment, I can try straight 70% alcohol to see how that works. I also have a small bottle of 99% alcohol that I can try too, since that will take the other's 30% distilled water out of the equation. I will be taking some photos for documentation.

Years back, I used to buy PVT's, which is an acronym for Previously Viewed Tapes, that is what Blockbuster video used to call their used VHS tapes that they pulled from inventory and sold to make way for more inventory. They sued to shrink wrap them and put a price label and any other labels of theirs on the outside of the shrink wrap. As the years progressed, they stopped shrink wrapping them and started to put these adhesive labels directly on the cover of the box, which is about the same as a record label.

I friend of mine who worked at a used book store told me that she used lighter fluid to soak the paper labels to get the label and the gum off. I tried it and it worked perfectly almost every time. On a rare occasion, you could see a slight damage. You could see a small area, where the label had been wet, no big deal. If you have a problem area on an album cover with some sticky goo on it, this might work well for you.

I am going to the grocery store this afternoon and will see it they have some lighter fluid on hand.

I can try some of the above combinations and see what happens. Will post later today.

 

If you haven't checked out the vinyl vac attachment I'd recommend you go to Amazon and take a look. It has worked very well for me. It is a plastic pvc pipe with a thin slit cut out the length of half an LP. I use a small wet/dry shop vac with it and it seems to remove all the particles that come to the surface after the wash. After that I put it through the rinse and vacuum again. This last vacuum completely drys the LP so I don't have to let them air dry.

 

I've always used distilled water, but today that has changed. I got one of my most crackling records and tried the wood glue trick. I went ahead and applied a good layer over one side and let it dry about 24 hours. I just peeled it off and holy &_$$ I can't believe it! I really can't. It sounds nearly flawless. Amazing, it really is. As loony as this method may appear, it works perfectly. I'm very excited actually, because I've got a couple records that have always crackled so bad, I just never play them. And they're favorites of mine, so I'm gonna do them next. You can look up wood glue vinyl on YouTube and find videos showing in detail how to do it. I'd recommend an old record to get the hang of doing it first, but it's pretty easy.

 

Never heard of using WD-40? It dries cleaner and better than lighter fluid imo.