Columbia stampers

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by stereo71, May 1, 2002.

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  1. stereo71

    stereo71 Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    texas
    I could use some help decrypting the numbers
    in the dead wax of two copies of BS&T. I have
    an original issue (bought 1-70) red label 2-eye
    with these numbers:

    side 1 "XSM137878-1AE" (die-stamped) with "C3"
    halfway around (scratched)

    side 2 "XSM137879-1AA" followed by "D3"

    Then, on another copy I found lately in a used
    bin, orangey label with gold Columbia-eye-etc. in
    continuous ring (later issue):

    side 1 "XSM137878-1CJ" "G3"
    side 2 "XSM137879-1BF" "E4"

    The "XSM137878" part is obviously the album side
    number. So what do we call the rest of this, and
    how might it relate to mothers and stampers, etc.?

    Sonically, the older 2-eye pressing takes the cake.
    Especially on side 1, where everything just seems
    more present, bass is more extended, etc. In
    comparison the newer record sounds thin. There
    does not seem to be so much difference between
    the side 2s.

    Just curious, I guess, how Columbia coded their
    production runs.
     
  2. -Ben

    -Ben Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington DC Area
    Good question.
    I wish someone could help, because I would like to know too.
    BC
     
  3. mcow1

    mcow1 Sommelier Gort

    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Not to sound uninformed, but could someone explain the "eye" thing
    Thanks
     
  4. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    That probably varies by record company - I'd bet they are all different. We may never know.... :(
     
  5. -Ben

    -Ben Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington DC Area
    mcow1,
    Briefly...the Columbia logo of the 50s and 60s looked like an "eye".
    The amount of logos (eyes) depicted on the LP label changed from time to time. This fact can help you approximately the age of the pressing.
    BC
     
  6. stereo71

    stereo71 Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    texas
    How many eyes...

    Sorry guys--sometimes I assume too much in describing
    these things.

    From my limited experience with Columbia label
    formats:

    Early 60s, maybe late 50s ? were red label with
    "Columbia" in white across the top, and 6 "eyes",
    three on each side. Sometimes with the "Lp" logo
    at the bottom of the label.

    Mid 60s, "2-eye" style is still red label, but the
    "Columbia" at top is plain block letter type, and
    there is only a single "eye" on each side. This
    is the more stylistic eye with concentric circles
    for the "head". Also, this type sometimes has the
    "360 Sound" with arrows at the bottom, usually for
    the stereo version.

    Later 60s, early 70s began the red-orange label
    with gold "Columbia-eye-Columbia-eye-Columbia" etc.
    in a ring around the outter edge.

    Okay, now that I have you all snoring from this trivia,
    all these types have record side/tape numbers die
    stamped, rather than hand-written or engraved, into
    the dead wax. The only scratched numbers are 180
    degrees around from the stamped ones, usually very
    faint, e.g. "C3" or "D2", etc. I was wondering if these
    represent the stamper generations from the mother,
    or maybe just individual machines used in the pressing
    run? Pure guessing on my part.

    Any correlation between sound quality and what these
    numbers and variants mean is the point, I suppose, but
    there are undoubtably many more variables involved, like
    the vinyl, temperature of the press, etc.

    Oh well, I guess I should be listening to music instead,
    right?
     
  7. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    The only thing I "know" is 1A is a first pressing. Now, what I've heard suggests that there were actually multiple first pressings, so... Of course, those numbers get *really* confusing - 1B, 2A, etc... At one time I thought perhaps one side was 1A and the other 1B (or 1A and 2A), but I've seen pressings that are 1A on both sides, so go figure... I just picked up a 1A PSR&T, as a matter of fact...
     
  8. RDK

    RDK Active Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    As a general rule of thumb - whether it's right or wrong ;) - i just look for the lower number and letter. "A" is better than "B" (or "H") and "1" is better than "2" (or "18"). Dunno if this works, but it sounds good and is easy to remember...

    Ray
     
  9. -Ben

    -Ben Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington DC Area
    I "believe" the approximate label date changes for Columbia LPs are:

    "6 eye" to "360 sound": early 1963
    "360 sound" to "red orange": fall 1970

    Example:
    Bob Dylan's first album was released in late 1962 with the "6 eye" label,
    Bob's second album Freewheelin' released in May 1963 only in "360 sound"

    Bob Dylan's Self Portrait was released mid 1970 in the "360 sound" label,
    Bob's next album New Morning released late 1970 exists only in "red-orange"

    BC
     
  10. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Well, the question is, is a 2A better than a 1B? Etc...
     
  11. -Ben

    -Ben Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington DC Area
    Lukpac nailed the question right on.

    By the way....one of the best things Mikey Framer has ever done was to publish in Stereophile (maybe a year ago?) how to decript UK (Parlophone/Apple) 60's Beatles LPs.
    BC
     
  12. Scott Wheeler

    Scott Wheeler Forum Resident

    Location:
    ---------------
    The letter at some mastering labs actually designated the person who cut that particular master. The number was just a running count of the masters cut for that particular side. So the rumor goes
     
  13. Mike V

    Mike V New Member

    Location:
    Connecticut
    This is my theory. I may have even heard this somewhere else:

    The numeral represents the mother.
    The letter represents the stamper from that particular mother.

    A 1/A 1/A pressing would be a very early press. 1/B would be the next, so forth.

    This doesn't necessarily have an impact on sound quality. You'd have to a/b compare them yourself. In my opinion, the earlier ones are far and away the best in most cases.

    Any other theories?
     
  14. Shoes4Industry

    Shoes4Industry Senior Member

    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    Here's a good website on labels with a lot of pictures. He does one on Columbia Masterworks, which is Classical, but the labels are similar and the dates used to the std Columbia Pop labels (6 eye, 2 eye, etc). He also does Blue Note and others...worth checking out.
    '

    http://www.ronpenndorf.com/contents.html
     
  15. stereo71

    stereo71 Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    texas
    Thanks Shoes...

    Great page for classical label info, especially
    for historical notes. Decca recording technology
    derived from WWII sonar?! Fascinating stuff...
     
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