excellent write up Toneh. The price difference is a huge deal, especially in New Zealand where you may not have access to the used market as much. As mentioned I bought the Harbeth SHL5 XD with only 20 hours on them for $3 grand less. I don't think there is any way I would have bought them at their full asking price. Mine probably have around 360 hours on them, I suppose that is enough time to have the drivers broken in enough (I know some don't believe in break in, but I sure as the hell do), to do a comparison with the Lintons. Hopefully I can get to it tomorrow. I'm not sure how different the SHL5s are from the C7s, but in my system the Harbeth treble is well extended. I will make special note of that when I do my comparison.
trust me…i’m not criticizing the Super HL5+ on performance - they are the more “audiophile” speaker. I only criticize their pricing…the box, parts and sound do NOT justify their price…at least to my wallet.
yes ditto, normally I would say keep your Lintons but because of your very large room dimensions I would go for something like the Cornwalls.
That is a draw back for Harbeths. Not the only high end speaker where the house sound dominates over recording differences. Anything BBC related certainly has a house sound that might be related to the thin walled cabinet design. A speaker should get out of the way and produce the information it is fed. Certainly that is not an issue with the Evo floorstanders which have a more refined treble unit. The 4.4 might be the answer at an affordable price to those who have an issue with the treble unit used in the Heritage series. Anyway I don't think you can go on price alone in determining which is the better speaker, but more money should mean a more inert cabinet and better drivers at least. To some extent you get that with the Evo series due to a wide range of models sharing the same components and likely larger scale production overall for the whole range.
I actually think that is the strength of the Harbeths, I like my music to sound enjoyable, not exposed as unlistenable. Unfortunately, not all of my recordings are well produced.
A little late to this thread but I was in a similar position a couple months ago. Loved my Lintons (still do) but I wanted to hear something different and “more hi-fi” too! Long story short, found a great deal on open box Focal Chora 826-D (with the built in atmos speakers), actually ended up costing me a little less than the Lintons. So now I have both the Lintons and the Focal set up in the same room (with their center channel). If I am listening to classic rock, something more acoustic based (or metal/hard rock where the focals can get harsh) I go with the Lintons, it just sounds RIGHT. If I am listening to pop, classical, or more modern alternative that has a lot of stuff going on in the background (The National, Radiohead) and I want the added dynamics, separation and/or soundstage I go with the focals. I also listen to some atmos music from Apple Music. So I went with something that was absolutely complementary, but didn’t replace them overall. I have got the best of both worlds and an “almost surround” set up along with them. (Rears will be complicated in my room unless I go wireless but I will figure it out eventually) I’ll never get rid of the Lintons.
G'day gents... @AC1, @Nielsoe, @Vegking & @mant1ana thanks for the replies... @mant1ana I did overlook that you'd owned the HL5+. Apologies. Appreciate your insights on the ownership experience and likewise the insights in how they compared to the Lintons. Ditto for you and your current ownership experience of the same model @Vegking Despite having posed the rhetorical question as to whether I would consider the C7's I heard yesterday to be worth four times more than my Lintons, the very obvious and clear answer is - NO! They are not. What I heard in terms of additional refinement and smoothness was appealing to me - insofar as I can say with any certainty that those were the direct qualities of the speaker and not influenced by the demo system being more upmarket than my own? The point I hope came across in my demo notes is that any improvements or differences between the C7's and the Lintons were very small indeed - IMO. And even though I've been around the block enough to know that four times more doesn't mean four times better - gosh, I'd need to perceive a much bigger performance gap before I parted with that sort of money?! No need mate! If I do go and listen again I'll be sure to share what I find here free of charge, haha. This x 1000! For years, in my earlier, more obsessive audiophile days I wore it like some sort of misguided badge of honour that my systems were ever more "ruthlessly revealing". I thought it was all very clever. At some point I realised I didn't want to build systems that rendered large swathes of my music collection unlisteable. The irony of getting into better gear because you love music, only to end up loving better gear and getting into less and less music because it wasn't up to standard? Duh! Some people accuse the Lintons of "sameness" too... I think they offer enough resolution to articulate the best recordings and forgive enough to still give the lesser one's a passing grade. Based on yesterdays experience I would've ascribed a similar quality to those Harbeths - but there's only so much you can glean in 40 minutes.
Thanks mate. And you're correct - there isn't really a second hand market for Harbeth's here. Occasionally - very occasionally - they come up on the local auction sites, but the sellers appear to rely on the rarity of the occurrence to expect quite high prices. So the idea of getting a pair at $3k less than retail... well... ain't gunna happen. And don't the SHL5 XD's have that super tweeter as part of their design? So I'm inclined to believe when you describe well extended treble? The store did get in the entire range short of the 40.3 XD but despite intending to keep them all as floor stock they've sold all but the C7's - so I doubt I'll get the SHL5 XD's anytime soon.
So, as promised I'm ready with my grilles on or off verdict. I'm listening in a rather large (approx 45 m2) room, consisting of a living room and kitchen in one (the kitchen acting as an appendix), but still one open space. I have my speakers 1,8 meters apart and my listening position is 2,5 meters away from same. I use a slight toe in. I started with Kenny Burrell and the track Wavy Gravy (vinyl Blue Note Classic series). I began with the grilles off and the first few seconds I noticed perhaps a bit more "air" and transparency than with the grilles on and it sounded quite good. As the track proceeded I did however start to miss the intimacy of the presentation I've become used to. The whole soundstage quickly became somewhat diffuse. Well, putting the grilles back on confirmed what I was hearing: it all fell back into place, the Lintons regained their ability to present a life like sound picture. The sax and the guitar was there in front of me again. It was possible for me to almost see them rather than them becoming part of a diffuse copy of what this track is. The second track used was Red House from The Jimi Hendrix Experience "Los Angeles Forum". Again, I played this at loud volumes (as I pretty much always do) and everything fell back into focus when I put the grilles back on. There's a frantic guitar solo that almost lost its effect with the grilles off becoming way too difficult to follow. Grilles on: Hendrix was back in front of me tearing it up. I initially planned on using one of my favorite test tracks, Shine On You Crazy Diamond, but I had heard enough to know which I prefer. As you have gathered this was not a subtle difference to me, this was night and day. I would say at least on par with what a much better amp would provide in terms on staging and also control really. Mind you, this is with my system, in my room and to my ears. Lastly, I must say I'm surprised by the difference myself, but I'm glad I finally got to do this. Grilles on it is.
Good point (if you have access to a good used audio market). I have owned both the C7ES2 and the C7ES3 40th. Neither are my dream speaker, but both are very nice, natural sounding speakers. I wouldn't even be sure I prefered the C7ES3. The 2 did many things right.
I did a comparison between the Lintons and the Harbeth SHL5 XD today. I listened with 3 tracks, first with Harbeth, then Linton, and back to Harbeth again for the same 3 tracks. For reference they were "Low" by Cracker, "Edge of Forever" by Dream Academy, and "Romeo and Juliet by Dire Straits". When I first put the Lintons back in the system, what hit me right away is they sound really good, right up there and I'm going to have to really concentrate to pick out differences. They both sound great to my ears, they just do it in their own way, and even at that there are not huge differences. Surprisingly, I could tolerate the Lintons at higher volumes a little better. For example, Romeo and Juliet (Dire Straits) I comfortably played at 76 average decibels with the Lintons, with the Harbeths, I was at 74 decibels, higher I felt was to much. This was probably because the Harbeths had a more extended treble. They are a little more detailed and extended in the mids and treble. Voices are clearer and more forward on the Harbeth, but lower and thicker on the Lintons. In other words, with the Lintons, voices had more weight, but was just recessed a bit. This is a matter of preference, I like both presentations here. Bass-the Linton bass is thicker, weightier. The drums, and kick drum are bigger with a sense of weight and space, just more prominent on the Lintons. On the Harbeths the bass guitars were tighter, more detailed and drums did not hit as impactful (it is a mid dominate speaker). On primary instruments in the recordings, the Harbeth had more extension, even the bass. The Lintons tended to have the primary instruments less concentrated, instead they were spread out in space. And here is where the Lintons surprised, while the primary instruments are not as forward and extended as the Harbeths, instruments that are buried in the mix appear in the space in the soundstage. Kind of a cool effect. Conclusion, I love them both and could be happy with either speaker. The enjoyment factor is high with both of them. Of course when it comes to value, Linton hands down, but we all knew that already.
Thanks for that comparison @Vegking, much appreciated. You've hit all the most salient points and since I now have a point of reference for the Harbeth sound - albeit not the 5 XD - I recognize what you mean when you describe that mid clarity/mid-centric presentation and also the slightly dryer, tighter, ever so slightly trimmed back bass, which does make the Linton sound like the girthier speaker. But I'm also picking up that - as I found - given the price difference this isn't a case of the cheaper speaker being "blown out of the water" or any such audiophile hyperbole? Of course in your case you bought the Harbeths at a killer price, so you get to enjoy either/or without the pressure of having to justify the differences based on price? To yourself I mean... everyone wants to feel like they made a smart buy right? In my case even comparing the cheaper (than 5 XD) C7 - having now had a few days to let the demo experience distill I really can't see there being sufficient value for me to spend that much more? If the price difference were smaller the C7 does some things that really do appeal to me. As I've already said the C7 would cost over four times more here in NZ and the 5 XD gets up over six times vs the Linton! So needless to say - based on valuable direct comparisons like the one you've just posted - that's a high bar to clear for preferences this way or that?
Linton not blown out of the water, no way. Harbeths do some things better, or differently that some people may really like. Likewise, for Lintons too. As far as justifying price, no, no justification on paying what I did. I was just curious as I have never heard Harbeth, well, I take that back I heard them in Vinnie Rossi's room at Axpona a few years ago, but I don't really remember all that well and it was with music genres I do not listen to or know that well. I'm in a heck of a predicament, I don't want two speakers, I wanted to make a decision, you know simplify my life, LOL. At this juncture, not going to happen, I really truly do love them both. But what I did learn, is it is hard to get a speaker that can beat the Lintons, yes I know there are a lot of speakers that technically better than he Lintons, but for me, my preferences and ENJOYMENT, the Lintons are a good fit for me. I have been at this for 30 years, probably owned 20 speakers, at least. Some expensive, $16,00.00 Tidal Pianos, $9400 Elac FS 409, $10,000 Proac D48R. Oddly, cheaper speakers like the Polk Audio R600 my son has and the Lintons sound better to me. Well, the audiophile speakers are going to scale up with great recordings, but I was so frustrated a lot of the time because I would have an expensive stereo system and a lot of my music was getting exposed so to speak, it sounded better on the factory car stereo. Plus, I have tinnitus, listening fatigue is a concern. Revealing speakers make it worse. With speakers like the Polks, Lintons and Harbeths, it doesn't expose certain recordings so much and the listening experience is better, plus less listening fatigue. For example, Husker Du sounded like sh#t on a lot of speakers I owned, not so with the Lintons and Harbeths.
This reminds me so much of my own audiophile path over the years. I've been at this for perhaps a decade less than you have and I remember when I was starting out I worked my way through six pairs of B&W's starting with the (then) entry level 300 Series all the way up to a pair of 804's... but the "upgrade" that stuck with me for all the wrong reasons was when I graduated from the budget level 603 S3 to the 7o4 from the (then) newly announced 700 Series line. The 603 "suffered" from boxy colourations and wasn't the last word in the tightest of tight bass - the 704 promised to banish all those shortcomings... the cabinet was decently braced and the bass from their small diameter paper/kevlar composite woofers was vice tight and fast but as I would come to find later on they also completely lacked magic. But that only became apparent to me after several weeks of ownership. They came across as dry and uptight to me... more a tool for analysis than something for enjoyment and relaxation. At the time, sitting there late at night in a pitch dark room I no longer had the spooky sensation that Norah Jones was in the room with me (hey - don't laugh... it's was the early 2000's) for all it's control, precision and superior resolution the more expensive speakers had lost all the charm of the former... they were for the head, not the heart. Things did improve a little as I graduated to bigger, more powerful, more expensive amps... they bossed and fleshed out the sound of the 704 and 703's that followed... but I never did get that magic back, I traded it for resolution and analysis. Many speakers came and went but it wasn't until I demo'd these "cheap" Wharfedales that the switch flipped in my head... a speaker "for music"? Huh... how novel? Needless to say the comparison between the Harbeth and Linton is not the same as the experience I related above... both seem to be for the music. So I don't envy the choice you're trying to make. For the sort of stuff I listen to - based purely on a 40 minute demo with unfamiliar equipment - the Harbeth might just be my choice. But I don't want to have to pay the price of entry to get there. It's not worth the expense to me. You on the other hand have already paid the price of admission - heavily discounted too as an added bonus? So I guess in your shoes I would probably lean towards the Harbeth? But I guess a lot will come down to what you listen to? Would the slightly smoother, more "polished", mid-centric sound of the Harbeth suit you better than just a hint more bite and bass power from the Linton's - at the cost of a comparatively ever so slightly recessed midrange. We seem to agree on how to characterize the difference? I'll bet that would be quite something @Merkinman Perhaps if I tried it I might find I'm looking to upgrade the wrong end of the system
our journey and description are so similar, you explain it or articulate it better. LOL, I was never good at writing descriptive audiophile summaries of what I was hearing. Anyway, I couldn't have said it better when you said you arrived at a speaker for the music and the Harbeths and Lintons are just that. The Technics SU-R1000 is a phenomenal amp so I feel I am feeding both speakers very well. Warm_Tunes has the SU-R1000 paired with the 40.3 and can attest to their synergy. It would be interesting to see if the Lintons scale up some more with that Hegel 590 you listened to the Harbeths with. Slightly recessed mids and highs with the Linton? Yes, but not in a bad way, I feel the details are there, especially in instruments that are normally buried in the mix, they take a more prominent role in the presentation, like I said, it is a surprising and cool effect. The difference is Harbeth puts primary instruments forward and more concentrated, NOT congested though. The stage and spacing is very good with the Harbeths, I wouldn't have noticed it if the Lintons didn't excel at big sound/space. Linstening to Til Tuesday(Ammie Man) right now on the Harbeths, they have never sounded better. Nothing like listening to music at low volumes at 3 am, ha! I should go to sleep.
Peter & Son (in Italy) made another Linton owner happy with their Linton mod (new internal cabling and crossover modification + bi-amp).
So I bought the Lintons. So far very impressed. Paired with Marantz 30/30n and SVS SB16 Ultra in a 495 square foot room. Run in has commenced.
So I went to a hifi show here in Denmark this weekend and I had the great pleasure of getting a rather thorough listen to the Harbeth HL5 (not the new version). They were using a Manley pre amp, a Parasound power amp (I think it was the JC5, not sure though) and streaming through an Aqua La Scala DAC. It sounded incredible, both my friend and I agreed it was some of the very best we heard that day. It was extremely punchy and dynamic and totally enjoyable in pretty much every way music (and hifi listening) can be. I cannot say of course how it would sound with the Lintons, but it was certainly proof that the Harbeths are speakers with a huge potential.
