Considering replacing Wharfedale Lintons

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by iNeedItGreasy, Jan 7, 2022.

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  1. jonwoody

    jonwoody Tragically Unhip

    Location:
    Washington DC
    Think about it this way your TV is a TV so thought it may send digital audio it is relatively speaking a noisy and non audio focused device. A dedicated streamer is just that dedicated to audio only with attention paid to reducing inherent noise. Even a budget streamer would likely be a serious upgrade for you.
     
  2. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    The clock chip associated with the S/PDIF output of your TV is, as it is in most TVs, a basic little thing. Adequate, but decidedly MidFi. TIDAL and mosut other high quality streaming services are best served with a dedicated streamer. The Bluesound Node and the iFi Zen Stream are the two most affordable and genuinely high quality streamers I know of right now.

    The improvement in sound quality when feeding a good quality DAC like your Gungnir will be plainly audible. I only recommend using a streamer hard-wired to your home network with an ethernet cable. Running one wirelessly can work well too but is often a poor quality swamp.
     
  3. iNeedItGreasy

    iNeedItGreasy Active Member Thread Starter

    Understood. I will look into purchasing the iFi zen.

    Looking forward to explaining this purchase to my fiance. I can hear it now: "Why do we need this streamer when the TV worked just fine?"

    "Because my audiophile friends on the internet said so, sweety." :laugh:
     
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  4. Johnnnny-oooops

    Johnnnny-oooops Well-Known Member

    Location:
    New England
    Or go Roon and build a RPi into a Ropieee and maybe go all the way to a Pi2AES and feed you Gumby with SPDIF. Best streamer around.
     
    Donivey likes this.
  5. Phil12

    Phil12 Radiant Radish

    They sure look ol' school magnificent, positioned on their off-factory stands.
    WhatHifi awarded them a maximum of *****.

    [​IMG]
     
    jonwoody likes this.
  6. Robert C

    Robert C Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    Hook line and sinker on the pointless streamer - nice work chaps!
     
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  7. iNeedItGreasy

    iNeedItGreasy Active Member Thread Starter

    :laugh: I'm still a little skeptical, but I think it might be worth finding a streamer used and seeing for myself.
     
  8. Johnnnny-oooops

    Johnnnny-oooops Well-Known Member

    Location:
    New England
    I would strongly recommend that anyone who finds themselves romanced by the (wonderful) Linton’s also check out the KLH Model 5, which is similar in spirit, but a bit larger and acoustic suspension (not ported) and I — personally — find them a bit more magical. But from the same vein.
     
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  9. georgebz1

    georgebz1 Remember 1939. Stop Putin Now.

    I'd look at a used pair of Harbeth SHL plus or Harbeth 30.2 or Spatial Audio Sapphires.
     
  10. AC1

    AC1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Antwerp, Belgium
    I don't think they are the analytical speakers he's looking for.
     
  11. iNeedItGreasy

    iNeedItGreasy Active Member Thread Starter

    I meantioned KEF, Focal, and B&W earlier in the thread. How would Elac's Vela series compare to these? Mainly interested in the FS407's and FS409's. I can't find any sound demos directly comparing them (I know sound demos are a rather poor way of auditioning a speaker, it's just the only method I have until I can actually find time to get to a dealer).
     
  12. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    I am with you about the Lintons- I heard them at the AXPONA audio show and did not care for their sound because sometimes not enough detail can be just as fatiguing as too much. Not being critical of people that like them or any speaker for that matter, just reflecting what I hear based on what I like.
    I also listened quite a bit to the R11s during a speaker upgrade hunt summer / fall 2020. They reminded me of the previous R-series but more open and detailed. To my ears the R11 were X-Ray detailed and like most KEFs (again, to my ears) they had noticeable metallic overtones, like crashing pots and pans. Extremely un-natural.
    I eventually landed on the Harbeth SHL5+ which were my dream speaker from several years ago. I am a fan of the Harbeth sound because they run that fine dividing line between too forgiving / lack of detail and intolerant of bad recordings / too much detail.
    The SHL5+ are the most detailed out of their range but at the same time have excellent bass and are smooth and forgiving at the same time. A little finicky on placement / toe-in as well as break in hours but once dialed in they are supurb speakers with life like sound.
    Much better realism and detail than the Wharfdales without going too far.
     
  13. layman

    layman Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York, NY
    The KEFs and Focals are much too glassy and "hi-fi" sounding for my tastes...in fact I can't live with most speakers with metal dome tweeters...they irritate me!

    I second the recommendation of the Stirling BBC LS 3/6, as they are far more neutral sounding and also a true improvement over what you already have.
    [​IMG]
     
  14. iNeedItGreasy

    iNeedItGreasy Active Member Thread Starter

    I have been aware of the SHL5's for a while. I've actually even considered purchasing them before and have passed on a few good deals in the past. But from what you and others have described in this thread, they might actually be the best step forward for me at this point if I can find another good deal on a used pair.

    Here's my synopsis of the Linton's during my extensive time with them:

    Bass: Overall, Bass response is good with these speakers. They extend rather low and the bass is fairly tight. I do experience some boom in my room on occasion, but I attribute this to the Linton's rear ports. I have my Linton's positioned about two feet from the front wall (as this is the farthest my Fiance can tolerate them into the room - any farther and they extrude into the living space too much.) I have experimented with plugging the rear ports, which works well for some recordings, but leaves the bass too anemic for others. My new-to-me REL S/3's should arrive sometime next week and I anticipate - once integrated - I will be able to plug the ports on my speakers and get tighter bass with much lower extension in my room (thanks to the REL's).

    Mid-range: My favorite aspect of the Linton's performance. Instruments like acoustic guitar and solo vocals sound fantastic through these speakers if the track is well recorded. I imagine speakers like the Harbeth's or Stirling's would do just as well in this regard and probably even take it a step further towards realism.

    Treble: Probably the Linton's greatest downfall. The treble sounds nice, but I can tell it glosses over a lot of details and is a bit recessed in the overall output of the speaker. I have sometimes noticed that it can sound "grainy" and I imagine it lacks the resolving power of a speaker like the Harbeth's and definitely the KEF's/Focal's/B&W's. Don't get me wrong, I'm not sure I want an inherently bright speaker. Harsh treble is one of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to sound, but I do want a speaker that is more resolving of high frequencies and let's more detail come across.

    Soundstage/Imaging: Imaging is pretty good (probably because I have taken painstaking care in setting them up in my room), but the laser focus people describe KEF speakers exhibiting makes me yearn for more precision in imaging. Soundstage is pretty good, but honestly I just don't have much experience in this regard. The sound from my Linton's makes it sound like the performer's are standing just behind the speakers with the sound spread out mostly between them. I have occasionally experienced sound appearing from beyond the speakers, but this is rare and only comes across in certain tracks. The soundstage also doesn't have much of a sense of height, but I'm not really sure that's even a thing? Unless, maybe if you have IRS5's like Paul McGowan, the soundstage would take on a sense of height?

    It sounds like the Harbeth's and Stirling's would capitalize on everything the Linton's do well and improve upon the things they do poorly. Unfortunately there are no dealers of either of those speakers within 1000 miles of me, so I would be purchasing them - if I eventually decide to go that route - essentially blind. Of course, I have a feeling either speaker would work well regardless.
     
  15. layman

    layman Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York, NY
    If you have no dealers in your area, you might have to find a seller that offers an in home trial, so that you have a chance to see how the speakers work in your room before you commit.
     
  16. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    It's really hard with COVID I should think for folks to go out and listen - but you have a larger room which may require some larger speakers. I prefer higher efficiency speakers to the likes of the Harbeth/Spendor kinds of things.

    I'd also consider that instead of buying a "just like my Lintons but better" approach to perhaps consider a completely different design that you may wind up liking more.

    I would consider something like the Pure Audio Project line of speakers - One of my favorites is the Quintett 15. These speakers should perform much better in a bigger room that you have. The price may not work for you at $9,995 but they have come out with smaller more affordable models - at $9,995 I actually consider them a steal in a world where cables cost more - Of course sound is subjective but given they are a blend of Horns and Open Baffle speakers they have a kind of Horns meets panels presentation. Further, they have sounded good with Pass Labs a reputable SS brand and they sound very good with very low watt tube amplifiers from Whamerdyne. Whamerdyne makes very well-priced tube amplifiers - more expensive than Schiit mind you but definitely within sane levels. A pretty great and relatively inexpensive way to get into the SET/High Efficiency world and you will find a more open faster presentation than low efficiency cabinet speakers. I like the previously mentioned Spatial speakers as well but the Pure Audio will fill a larger room better.

    The Quintett 15 has four 15 inch woofers per side - the newer cheaper model I believe is 4 10 inch woofers per side. They vary in price depending on the tweeter you select.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    $3,500 (Duet 15)
    [​IMG]



    Pureaudio Project

    Whammerdyne amps

    [​IMG]

    Best sounding 2A3 Single Ended Tube Amplifier | Class A Made in USA
     
  17. AC1

    AC1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Antwerp, Belgium
    Which actually could be its best or most pleasant quality. Modern highly resolving speakers (forward treble and brilliance) make it fatiguing or even impossible to listen to ride cymbals in Jazz music, which is something I'm experiencing with the smaller Wharfedale Denton 85th Anniversary, but not with the Lintons. Most recordings are not mixed on highly resolving speakers. Whatever you audition in the future, make sure to pay attention to the cymbals. Kenny Wheeler's Gnu high and Dave Brubeck's Time Out are 2 good test examples.

    Are there any songs or tracks on your mind that don't sound right on the Lintons or where you think the detail is veiled or hidden?
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
  18. jek57

    jek57 Forum Resident

    Location:
    upstate New York
    I had the diamonds 240s and the 11.4s which I enjoyed very much but I got looking at the Revels Concerta2 F36 decided to buy them I have a McIntosh MC152 and a mx113 preamp tuner though I haven't listened the the Lintons the Revels compared to the diamonds these are a step above the diamonds .I've been through lots of speakers and these Revels are my last speakers I will buy
     
  19. Hoffy

    Hoffy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I actually switched from The Focal Aria to the Lintons because I wanted something that I could move around more easily for imaging purposes. The Aria do have more detail, particularly in the low end, but I couldn’t move em around ( ideal listening position is out in the room but that has very low WAF). So when I’m listening I pull them out ans when not they go back toward the wall.

    So I traded more soundstage imaging for a little less detail and I’m fine with that. The focal can be a a bit fatiguing unless you go up to their Berillyum tweeter models which get pricey.
     
  20. iNeedItGreasy

    iNeedItGreasy Active Member Thread Starter

    "Take Five" from Time Out by Dave Brubeck is actually a good example of what I'm talking about. The ride cymbal at the opening of the track doesn't have the attack of an actual ride cymbal in the room. The decay of the same cymbal is where you can hear some of the graininess I mention - the speaker just doesn't quite resolve the decay in a believable way. I'm a drummer, so I pick up on that right away. On the other hand, the Linton's do a great job of reproducing the sound of the actual drums.

    Don't get me wrong, the treble of the Linton's is not bad in any way. It just makes everything sound pleasant. From 20+ years experience as a musician, I will be the first one to attest that the sound of a cymbal is not always pleasant - but that's what makes it sound real.
     
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  21. DancingSea

    DancingSea Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maui, Hawaii
    Run for your life. Questions like this are where the disease starts to metastasize into a terminal condition.

    Hold onto to the innocence of being satisfied with mid-fi and just listening to the music.

    I must stop writing now, I hear the asylum orderlies coming…. it’s time for our medication….

    I own the Zen Stream. With a 15V power supply it is phenomenal in Tidal Connect exclusive mode. Better sound than involving Roon.

    Come to the pusher baby!
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
  22. iNeedItGreasy

    iNeedItGreasy Active Member Thread Starter

    I'm afraid it may already be too late for me. :laugh:
     
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  23. jonwoody

    jonwoody Tragically Unhip

    Location:
    Washington DC
    Busted my friend allow me to escort you back to your cell, err room. :cop:
     
  24. Glmoneydawg

    Glmoneydawg Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario Canada
    Definately the the lunatics running the asylum lol ;)
     
  25. AC1

    AC1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Antwerp, Belgium
    Interesting. A drummer who commented on a Spanish youtube video about tweaking the Linton's crossover said that he wouldn't think of modifying the Lintons (in order to obtain more clarity and detail in the treble) because for him it's rare that he actually recognizes the bell of his ride cymbal and he doesn't ever want to change that. The ride cymbal on Brubeck's Time Out is one of the recordings Peter 'Wharfedale' Comeau has mentioned that needs to sound right on a speaker. If it sounds too excited, if it sticks out by calling attention to itself, then he can't listen to it for a very long time. I think he succeeded. Also, ride cymbals never sound thin or small on these speakers. I'm not a drummer myself but as a keyboard player I've spend a lot of time playing in bands and what I find very striking is that with the Lintons the drum set is one instrument, one unit, that appears to come from one place, one driver. I don't think about a tweeter, the rides are not coming from a tweeter, it's coming from the drummer. It's probably what I like the most about the Lintons. I can't fully agree about the cymbals always sounding pleasant. Yes, they kinda do in the brilliance region (because the tweeter of the Lintons doesn't overemphasizes) but cymbal crashes certainly don't always sound great or pleasant in the Linton's mid-range. There is nothing taken away or added in their mid-range, so every other cymbal on every other recording will sound different, sometimes great, sometimes not so great. Contrary to what people say, a bad recording will not sound great on the Lintons, recordings of the '60 or '70 will not sound like they are recorded yesterday.

    BTW, and this is really important, check if the screws holding the drivers in place are tight, because if they are not, it will affect the sound considerably. I already had to tighten the screws of my Lintons 6 times.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022

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