Convince me out of buying the Polk Rti10s (Speaker suggestion thread)

Do the eBay thing: buy new, leave 'em sealed, sell 'em for a few hundred bucks profit, and take the proceeds to buy something more expensive.

 

Here's my take - I hope it's not too useless, since I can't remember the particular Polks I listened to.

When I bought my Definitive Technology towers (a long time ago) I was comparing them to Polk tower models. I was definitely impressed by them, although the bipolar nature of the Deftech was the selling point. That was 6 years ago.

Fast forward to today. I was looking for something to replace my towers (which I love in my HT, but don't really like for music), and I took a quick look at Polk. My impression was that they were cheaply made (the "knuckle test" made me think the speakers were made of particleboard, and not braced), and their sound reminded me of the DefTechs - a bit cold.

I decided to spend a bit more money, and went for a pair of B&W DM602S3. I don't think I'll ever regret the decision. They are much more solidly built, they (to my ears) are a lot more refined than either the Polks I listened to or the Deftechs, and they are highly reviewed by almost everyone.

In short, I'd recommend you to compare the Polks you like with something else... if you are willing to go up to $1K, I can think of a couple of semi mass-market speakers that could fit your needs. The Energy Connoisseurs C-7 or C-9's, the B&W CM and DM series are prime examples of what I mean. They may not be the best speakers out there, but after taking my time and reading about them, I was pretty sure they were the ones that could fill my needs. I ended up with a pair of Energy C-3's, too... for a smaller system.

Also, if you go for Polks, consider that you can buy a great mini-monitor today, and get a good (or build your own) subwoofer later on. My B&W monitors are now paired to a set of 150L, 12" DIY sealed subs with 272 watts, and they beat every system I've ever had...

 

I think that's a great price for those speakers. I have a set of RTi150s and they make me smile every day.

 

Most speakers are made from "particle board" today, as it is more inert than a pure wood enclosure (such as solid oak, maple, walnut, etc...those resonate more). There are also different grades of particle board, and varying thicknesses as well. In my case, the knuckle test really doesn't mean much...I'm sure some of the speakers I own would fail it, but they all sound quite good regardless.

One thing that I don't like are the dealer demos. It's hard to audition speakers when they're being driven by a home theater receiver using a questionable source component and unknown wiring. Wish there was a way I could borrow pairs to try in my own system, for a couple of weeks each, to see which ones I can live with. A DVD player/receiver/zip cord is nowhere close to what I use at home, so that's not even a fair demo for my own purposes.

 

This is a good case for having a local dealer, one that you have an ongoing relationship with. I'm sure if Abolute Sound was still around, I could have probably borrowed some speakers over a long weekend. I think Circuit City also has (or had...?) some kind of store credit program where you get back all or most of your original purchase toward a more expensive component.

FWIW, I know CC is dropping the Polk RTi line of speakers (which I believe are being discontinued, and replaced by the Monitor series), so there are likely some great closeout and open box deals on those now.

 

Thanks for all the suggstions guys! I do have a B&W dealership in a neighboring town but looks like I will have to take a few hours out of my day to listen to any Energy's.

 

I completely agree with you and Metralla regarding the Twins. If you absolutely have to buy a new smaller speaker, these are a wonderful choice. They also won the shoot-out in the "Listener" article I spoke of in my previous post.

 

B&W=fatigue & bleeding ears, IMO.

 

Hmmm. I've heard every single model of B&W speaker and never experienced this. You're the first person I've seen describe the sound like this

 

Don't just take a stack of CDs though.

What you really need are three or four fairly short tracks (don't play "Thick as a Brick") that you know very well that demonstrate one or more aspects of sound reproduction.

Aspects like vocal presence and projection, complex layering and depth of image, a simpler soundstage with good localization, a difficult sibilant vocal line, tuning in the low bass region (like the rolling tomtoms on Dark Side of the Moon), super low synthesizer bass, high treble etc, a pure acoustic instrumental/vocal recording to examine TONE.

If you can get one track that has a number of these things it makes it easier.

Listen to the tracks at home and take some notes. Try to see where your own weaknesses lie, and the things that you'd like to see improved with better speakers.

The better prepared you are, the more relevant the auditioning will be. Don't try to compare more than two or three speakers at a shop in your price range. Don't let the salesman introduce any variables into the equation, and don't let them play a more expensive model at this comparison.

 

Jeez, you are a bit toe'y today mate.

 

Just a reminder, friends: all of us have wildly different tastes in speakers, just as everyone's ears hear differently. What's great for one person might be unlistenable or inadequate for another. Most of us participating here don't want this thread to degrade into a place to bash or badmouth speakers or the companies that make them. Making thoughtful recommendations is more helpful.

Thanks!

 

I'm always "a bit toe'y".....whatever that means.

 

Fair enough. I recommend: New speakers: Tannoy DMT 12, Jean Marie Reynaud Twin MK IV, Legacy, Alon, Quad, Triangle, Coincident. Old speakers: Jean Marie Twin MK I, Tannoy Monitor Gold 10, 12, 15...HPD 12, 15(pro recone only), anything by Proac, Castle, Alon, certain older Snell speakers, certain vintage KLH models, and MANY other things I can't think of off the top of my head. Check audiogon and ebay.....read some articles, ask on audioasylum, etc. Good luck.

 

Rudy!

Actually, most good speakers today are made from MDF, going from 3/4" in width all the way to 1 1/2 inches, or more! They are also very heavily braced. My Energys, B&W and Margules are made out of 3/4 MDF, for example (the Margules going so far as to having concrete on the insides). Apparently, this is done so as to combat vibrations on the box, which can smear imaging and the midrange.

The DefTechs are a good example of this. They were made out of particleboard, no bracing, and they had some kind of weird resonance in the lower mids. I never realized it until I bought the smaller monitors.

EDIT: Wow, the RTi10 looks very well braced, and it'as made out of MDF!

http://www.polkaudio.com/home/produ...48&PHPSESSID=a96bcce577a20a4e889b3a7b49b81c73

The Polks I was looking at had nothing to do with this speaker...

 

Not in my case... I loved the DM and CM models, plus the 800 Nautilus series (had to settle on the DM's, though) They are a tiny bit brighter than my Margules, which have a silk dome tweeter, but they do not offend. Compared to my Energys, they have a lovely midrange, and added bass response, but they sound pretty similar in the treble... maybe the Energys are a bit more laid back.

One thing I learned about my DM monitors is that they do not really like tube amps. A powerful SS amp with a tube pre seems to be the best choice for them. The Energys do behave quite nicely with lower powered equipment, though.

 

Sam some people believe that indeed B&W does have that kind of sound characteristic. My personal experience is that most likely if they have that opinion then it was a question of the complete setup they were listening too.

 

I've got a couple of "older" models - the RT1000s and RT800s - and they are solid as a rock. I'm very happy with them, though I will admit that my 1000s do double duty as HT speakers.

 

Yes, the entire playback chain can help determine sound characteristics. I still think they have a very "British" sound, i.e. laid back highs, full mids, and polite (not sloppy) bass response.

So, Aquateen. Have you had a chance to listen to more speakers yet?

 

Javier!

The tweaker in us would want to add our own bracing to the cabinet , but that also decreases the interior volume of the cabinet and would raise the peak impedance frequency (and -3dB point) of the system. If I were building something from scratch and it were a larger cabinet, I'd consider doubling up on the MDF on certain panels. I honestly don't know of any speakers today that aren't made of MDF. I do know that in the 60's, a lot of the "hi fi" systems were made from a good grade of plywood. Dad's Admiral was plywood with a cherry wood veneer. MDF just didn't exist back then.

I'm so torn on speakers myself. Part of me wants to find something already built, while another part of me browses through the Parts Express catalog and sees all the nice components I could use to build my own. (Those Bohlender Graebner ribbon drivers are interesting!) But I figure, too, that a speaker company has hundreds of thousands of dollars to throw into research to design a better speaker. I can hack a basic box together using the formulas, as well as design basic crossovers, but there are so many variables I could mess around with...I often wonder if it's worth it.

 

Not yet. In fact I found out today that I may not make the jump to a full time job that I though I would. It may be awhile before I can actually pick up a set of speakers. Although I do have one question, has anyone heard the B & W CMs/DMs through a tubes? My playback chain would look something like this, Nad/Sony cd player-Thorens td160-vintage tube (probably a Fisher)-speakers.

 

Hi all! I'd just like to put my 2 cents in: I have a pair of RTi100 Polk's that I bought at CC about a year ago for an absolute steal: $365.86, tax included!! They were an "open box" item and I just couldn't resist. I really like how they sound, and everyone who hears my system (it's admittedly mid-fi) comes away impressed. I think that the secret to buying speakers is to listen to as many different brands and models as possible to get a feel for what you like, and when you're on a budget you should still try to get the best you can afford. Have I heard better speakers than my Polk's? You bet, but not for what I paid, and I did have to consider price. Anyway, like others here have already pointed out, speakers are something that are very subjective: what I like you may hate. I remember waaay back in the '70's when Advent speakers were supposed to be "the best" that I couldn't stand their sound, but I had many friends who bought them and loved their sound. AT, be sure to get what you like, you're going to be the one who listens to them the most.