Counterpart starring J.K. Simmons

I'd say it failed due to the moribund narrative and convoluted scripts with confusing orientation between realities (despite great acting from the lead).

 

Quite true. The ending was also predictable (to me) and a convoluted plot is only good if it avoids confusing the audience which clearly, as thought provoking as it was (and with ideas borrowed left and right from writers like Phillip K. Dick without being as adventurous) at times, the series didn’t do much with the ideas introduced for me. Still, it was entertaining (if confusing at times) and was far more ambitious than the average series. Perhaps if they had spent less time trying to be clever and coming up with a clearer narrative, it might have succeeded.

 

I enjoyed it despite its narrative shortcomings. Not a great series but quite good when the story, sides, etc. were more clearly presented.

 

For me it was yet another example of a project/series that started off like gangbusters, had a great premise, but couldn't sustain the creativity. So many great shows start off super-strong, but end up a mere shadow of what they were. Shows like Orphan Black and Dexter were brilliant when they started, but by the time they ended, not so much. We could probably do a thread about shows that started strong but ended weak.

 

I felt that, despite the declining quality of Orphan Black, that it ended on a stronger note than most of the series around that time. The first two seasons are extremely strong while the last season had its moments but would have been better at half the length,

 

I'd agree that Orphan Blacks' ending was better than say, Dexters, to use the 2 shows I referenced. But the last season can't be compared to the 1st IMO! Whatever became of Tatiana Maslany anyway? Man, I thought she was going to be huge after Orphan Black.

 

She was in Destroyer with Nicole Kidman and a couple of other movies. She spent much of 2018 playing opposite Bryan Cranston in Network and Mary Page Marlowe on Broadway.

I wouldn’t suggest that the last season was as good as season one but there were episodes from the last season that compared

 

She's been doing stage work in NYC.

EDIT: I should have checked wayneklein's post.

 

~Counterpart kinda lost me towards the end of series 1 as I found it to be too convoluted - Colony meanwhile I really enjoyed, seems a lot of shows I liked were cancelled this year ie Happy!, The Passage and a few others

 

I like Olivia Williams, so I did not mind too much myself that season 2 was essentially about her character Emily Silk, but I do think the series could not survive changing the lead character from JK Simmons’ Howard Silk to her.

I found myself distracted by wondering if Simmons may have been in ill health or something, after so many season 2 episodes gave him so little to do. I’m sure it was just a narrative choice, but it would be akin to having ‘24’ without Keiffer Sutherland’s Jack Bauer. I kept waiting for Howard Silk (and ideally Baldwin) to become major players, for the show to get back into gear, but it never did.

I enjoyed Emily Silk’s arc, but was often extremely bored by the Quayle family’s drama, and though Mira was a fine psychopathic villain, the less said about how Management casually sauntered into her plan the better.

If anyone is curious about how the season 2 finale’s setup would have been resolved, the show’s creator, Justin Marks , tipped that hat in an interview:

Spoiler

Is the baby formerly known as Spencer the only child of two worlds?
Marks: That is a big mystery that very specifically we want to explore moving forward, as to what it would mean to other children of two worlds and what that would mean — not just in terms of what their loyalties would be. I don't even know how to define that — but what their physiologies might be. They're existing with twice the gene specimens in a lot of ways, and twice the immunities, or half the immunities. It's a really interesting thing to play with.

Counterpoint’s first season is among the best series ever. That it stumbled so badly in its second season, through decisions it inflicted on itself, is so disappointing. I don’t see how a third season would have regained what it was already losing throughout season 2, so I guess I am fine with the series not returning/not having an end. It doesn’t change my love of season 1, which I expect I may watch again at some point because it really was so good.

 

I always felt like Counterpart was an extension of Fringe (or rip off if you like) and it felt as such. For all of Fringe’s failings(and it had many) they handled the alternate world storyline much better and kept the characters for each universe different enough to follow without confusion. Still love the first season but the second failed t9 deliver.

 

I think the problem lies somewhere in the series development system. You spend hours of blood, sweat and toil crafting a compelling story arc that will convince The Powers That Be, to let you shoot your series. The problem seems to be, being open to how it develops, and how you close it. Allowing yourself (and frankly, all the kibutzers and hangers-on up above you in the process) a chance to put their thumbprint on the creation process going-forward once you no longer have to sell somebody on your taking on the project. For all the people who can clearly agree when a show starts out like gangbusters, where it runs out of steam, I submit you let it run out of steam by giving up creative control before you had finished creating the whole story.

I know there are many cases where the denoeument doesn't live up to the promise of all the sturm und drang of the storyline execution itself ( Game Of Thrones, ahem-!), but isn't that what you got into the craft for? To do better? You can point to dozens of satisfactory reads in the graphic novel format because, once you've hooked them with a premise, it still progresses as a story, to be about something much wider than that. Of course, we're talking about millions of man-hours with no suits or "consultants" over the shoulder of one single person, hunched-over a drawing desk, doing all the work himself. And if working with a writer, well nobody works with more synergy than that relationship.

I see plenty of places for the Counterpart story to go without Howard, or Emily or any of the principles. It was a great idea, crafted into a compelling narrative. Thanks for letting us visit your idea. So now, the next time you have a great idea and a compelling narrative...howabout having a progression, a climax and a proper denouement in your back pocket, and not letting the studio sign-off on the first part, without putting some commitment into telling a whole story?

 

I only just now noticed today, Counterpart is now included on Amazon Prime, both seasons...just in time for home isolation viewing!

 

I pulled this thread up because I watched the entire series a long time ago, and decided to re-watch it today. J. K. Simmons is riveting from the very first episode. I loved him in Whiplash, as well. They must pay him a fortune to do those silly commercials.

 

And I hope they do!

 

Spoiler

Is he perhaps hinting that Spencer, living in "our" Berlin, may have brought the virus here wit him...only as "Patient Zero", to also contain the antidote, which would have taken the whole Season 3 to figure out? Next-!

on the other hand, considering how much of an eerie coincidence it would have brought up in the year we're having now...! Only issue would have been, finding any spare hospital wards to shoot scenes in.

 

Agreed on all points.

I enjoyed Counterpart anyway, but it always felt like a retread.

 

JK Simmons has a very good personal trainer.

 

I just watched the whole series over the past couple of weeks and generally agree with everyone's observations. Great premise, great cast, really solid first season. Second season lost focus and didn't start to regain it until near the end. I didn't find the finale completely satisfying, though, and I thought there were a lot of missed opportunities for the Howard from our world to change, to have an arc of some sort, when all he really did was stay the same guy. I suppose that's believable, but if you're going to borrow from PKD, why not also use his idea of the ordinary person in extraordinary circumstances as the center of your narrative. They talk so much about who the better version of yourself is -- why not have Howard actually make moves toward being that better person. Not like his other, but the version of himself he wanted to be. Show him gaining strength, show him discovering talents he has that he had long suppressed. Not perfect, but someone who is transformed by his experiences. Simmons made the portrayals effective because he's such a good actor, but he deserved better writing.

 

Starting this one up. What a great pilot episode! I saw it when it first aired, but then was holding off on the series as a friend and I were going to watch it in tandem. Didn't happen, I lost Starz, and so never saw anymore. Watching on Amazon Prime now, and hope to cruise through in the next few weeks.

 

Do you have to pay for the episodes on Amazon Prime?

 

No, both seasons currently included.

 

It's a great show!

 

Just watched episode #3 and it opens with "Emily Prime" (as I notice the closed captioning dubs her) watching a commercial showing a family all wearing masks, with slogans like "personal health is public health" and talking about penalties for not reporting someone sick to the authorities. Since this show predates our current pandemic, its an oddly prescient image to see now.

You do find out later than the "other side" dealt with a severe pandemic. I couldn't quite figure out why the ambassador (Richard Schiff's character) wanted census numbers from the other side so badly in their negotiation.