Crate Digging for Vinyl

I find my local record shop prices their CDs in the same way. It makes it hard to find anything worth buying. Books suffer from the same disadvantages as popular CDs from the 90s. They were manufactured in their millions. It doesn't mean that there aren't desirable titles, it just means you have to be knowledgeable. Knowledge is the key to building any great collection.

 

I've pretty much convinced myself that selling online is not the way to go. It seems like that would turn a hobby into work. Then there are as you note, fees, plus packaging costs, etc. I've heard horror stories from people that both purchase and sell online.

I'm trying to work out a plan where I would place a crate of reconditioned albums in area antique and higher end thrift stores. There are many of this type shops in my area. I don't think I would really make money but it would be a fun activity.

 

That is sad. It sounds like he's stressing over something that is suppose to be fun.

 

New Inquiry- Grading Records
The whole system seems very arbitrary. It seems like people take it and then bend it to their will. Play grading seems the only reliable way to grade as well. Visual grading is a crap shoot at best. Near mint and Very Good Plus according to goldmine are the same when play grading. That is just ridiculous.

Here's what I've kind of reconciled myself to.
1. Mint- Never opened
2. Near Mint- Perfect (seldom happens, you might not hear a flaw but someone else might or the next time it is played it might develop one)
3. Very Good Plus- Play it through and you don't notice any flaws. (If you sit down in front of your stereo and stare into the speakers you might hear something.)
4. Very Good- Play it through and there are occasional crackles, slight surface noise but it doesn't interfere in the enjoyment of the music. (It is a used record, be realistic.)
5. Good- Play it through and there are lots of crackles / pops / and or surface noise. It can be an enjoyable listen despite these flaws or they might bug you to death.
6. Fair- Can't play it through or if you can flaws overwhelm the listening experience and probably damage you stylus.

VG++,G+,VG-,G-,NM- are all wishful thinking.

It is best to error on the side of caution. Most of the time I grade them VG or G and fight the temptation to call it something better. So in essence there seem to be two grades VG and G with some exceptions.

I'd love to hear other's thoughts on this.

 

On one hand that makes sense but it's pretty narrow. I call things VG++ all the time but it's the only grade I do that with.

 

I like this YT video.



Darryl

 

Yea, I am kind of taking my life in my hands with that one.

 

That was interesting. I think his last point was important. If a record is exceptionally bright in appearance be cautious! I clean with distilled water, iso alcohol and dawn. 7 parts h2o, 1 part iso and 2,3 drops of dawn. Then I vacuum. I only do that once. If I clean again for any reason I leave out the alcohol, just use distilled water and dawn. I know there is a debate about whether alcohol should be used as some argue that it will breakdown the vinyl. But from discussions I've had with others it appears that this happens when they are cleaned multiple times with high concentrations of iso alcohol. I'm using only 14% in my mix. I washed about 1,000 records without vacuuming because I couldn't afford one of those high dollar cleaning machines. Then I read some reviews for the "vinyl vac" and for $30 figured I'd give it a try. I picked up a wet/dry shop vac for $25 and gave it a try. It seems to work well. So now I am gradually going back and re-cleaning my records to include the final vacuuming step. I don't use the iso in this second cleaning.

 

What bothers me is "great for it's age". As if a grade can be adjusted due to age. A mint (really a grade that doesn't exist in truth, but as an example) record is mint, whether it came out in 1961 or 2018, mint is mint. VG+ is usually about as great as a used record can be. Grading is so very often not what it is supposed to be.

 

1. Mint- Never opened
2. Near Mint- Never opened until I opened it to make sure the right record was inside. Otherwise, doesn't exist.
3. Very Good Plus- I would pick it up in the store and say that's a really nice record that I wouldn't think twice about buying despite a few visible flaws. Pretty rare.
4. Very Good- I would pick it up in the store and decide it was too beat, so I'd put it back. Most US online dealers VG++ or NM, UK Dealer's Mint Gem Top Copy.
5. Good- I would pick it up in the dollar bin and put it back.

 

Yea, I'm great for my age too. But I'm definitely not in mint condition!

 

So you are saying that online dealers inflate their grades?

 

One thing to remember about online sellers is that not all of them are dealers. I’ve found the above to be more characteristic of amateur sellers rather than reputable dealers with excellent feedback ratings. Plenty of fantastic dealers in the UK, although the LP packaging sucks here compared to the US.

Check the feedback! If there are a few negatives among overwhelmingly positives, see if it’s due to a few whiners who paid £5 for a beat mono Pepper and wonder why it plays crackly or if it’s due to poor seller communication, bad packaging, LPs never arrive, etc.

What’s the lowest percentage positive seller feedback you all will even consider purchasing from? I know more feedback ratings more accurately represent, rather than say two ratings at 100%, but I think about 97.5% is about as low as I typically go.

 

It’s pocket bread you make felafels with

 

I tend to search for vinyl from sources other than used record stores but when I do this has been my observation.

They never offer a grade for their records. They just set a price. This bothers me because there is no way to tell if the price is a reflection of the demand for the record or the condition. Is this $12 because he knows he can get that from someone or is it that the condition is exceptionally good? Is this other record only $3 because it is in rough shape or because it isn't going to move off the shelf for a long time at a higher cost? Of course looking at the record gives us an idea but often that is wrong. For instance I bought 4 albums recently for between $3 and $10 each. The vinyl looked good on all of them but when played 3 of the 4 were at best G with significant surface noise. The only one that played VG was the $3 Bobbie Gentry record. Obviously the Gentry being a country album was selling at the lower price because of demand, not condition. The others, evidently were marked up because they figured they could get it despite the condition.

If I'm going to pay more when I buy at a record store I expect the vinyl to have been cleaned before it is put on the shelf and I expect it to have been at least spot checked (listened to) for surface noise and for that to have been factored in when pricing. Other than finding something specific I've been searching for I think I'm better off digging around at thrift stores, flea markets, antique shops and used furniture stores.

 

If you have a smart phone or a iPhone there is a flashlight on there that will spot scratches on a LP that you won’t see with the naked eye in a store. This has helped me decifer whether a record is VG or NM

 

True. I guess it's more about the VG or G in my searches. It is hard to tell from looking if those scratches are going to affect play. I've seen records that had a number of scratches but they all turned out to be superficial and the record after a good cleaning played without surface noise ( a solid VG) and I've seen those that showed much less wear and tear when examined but played with enough surface noise that it was ( bad G) hard to enjoy. That's why I think the record stores should offer a listening grade. I don't mind rolling the dice when I'm digging around and paying .75-1.50. That's part of the game. But when I walk into an actual record store and they are asking $5-$20 it seems what I'm paying for is their expertise. I shouldn't go home and put it on the turntable and hear constant surface noise.

 

A few thoughts on this:

1. No record store should be selling records that are below VG+ unless they are in the bargain bins. Unless of course they are really rare records.

2. Some record stores have listening stations so you can listen in the store

However if you are in a record store and you find a record you want that is scratched and there is no listening station I would hope that store had some kind of return policy on that scratched up LP if it don’t play ok. Im one that if the record is more than 3 dollars and is scratched then I’m not going to buy it. Unless it’s a white whale so to speak like a Beatles Butcher or a Elvis Presley S/T original. Which is unlikely

 

Can you clarify your definition of VG+? When I read goldmine and various articles about grading. It appears to me that VG+ and NM are equal in regard to play quality. Visually a VG+ shows wear that a NM does not, but when played VG+ and NM both have no audible issues, play clean with no pops, crackles or surface noise. I think this is unrealistic and that is why I think given that definition almost all used records are VG or G.

If your definition of VG+ is a clean playing record with a random, infrequent crackle or pop and without surface noise then I think that is a realistic expectation and more in line with what I think a VG+ should be. But it isn't what goldmine defines as such.

 

Mint is too broad as "never opened". What if somebody dropped it on it's edge and there is a corner ding or someone bent it and visible spider creases can be seen through the shrink?

 

I don’t really listen to goldmine but They are close, but I would say NM is a record that is essentially unplayed. Very rarely do you find NM records, especially old ones from the 60s or 70s. VG+ is usually as minty as we can get. Yeah pretty much quiet with maybe an occasional surface noise as expected from a Used record. To expect anything more from a used record decades old is unrealistic. Visually though there shouldn’t be any blatant scratches.
So I guess you are correct visually a VG album can look like a NM. But things like spindle marks are tell tale signs that it has been played some.

 

Welcome to SHF!

Also personally thrift stores haven’t done me very good, unless you like easy-listening albums a lot. Usually I just go to my local record stores or online, even if I have to pay more at least I’m getting what I like. I never seem to find amazing stuff cheap anymore! Although recently I did get the 1969 reissue Of “Odessey & Oracle” for $1! Ok condition too

 

It is amazing how many records Al Hirt, Herb Albert, The Ray Conteff Singers, and Johnny Mathas sold back in the day! Rock albums aren't as prevalent that is for sure, but I've found some good rock records. More often I find singer/songwriter, country, soul and jazz. If that sort of stuff interests you it is there. What I'm always looking for but can never find is blues.

Thrift store is also kind of a loose term as well. The charity stores where everything is donated is very hit or miss, more often miss, but at .75 a pop it is worth checking. Today I got two Mickey Newberry, Linda Ronst. and Doug Clark and the Hot Nuts among others at one of those. Then there are the consignment type thrift stores. I ended up getting 40 records, most for a dollar, They included everything from a Miles Davis to a couple of Rickie Lee Jones, and a bunch of 50s-60s country including Hank Snow, Wynn Stewart, Buck Owens, Kitty Wells, Roy Acuff and The Louvin Brothers! Then there are the antique / quality used furniture type thrifts. The owners often go to estate sales and pick up 50-100 or more at a time. This is where I've gotten most of the rock records. I've earlier gotten Pet Sounds and Thelonious Monk's Straight, No Chaser for $1 or 2. Often they will sell you what they picked up in one lot to turn a quick profit and it is a win / win.

 

Sadly the thrift stores are not worth visiting anymore. Buying online on discogs is what I do almost exclusively. Still cheaper than a lot of record stores

 

I agree