Criterion "Bull Durham" - DVD Beaver screenshots show teal tint*

Hey it's Criterion, they're the best damn company in the world

 

I used to think so, but they have been beat a few times over. BFI and Arrow come to mind, where I prefer their releases. It is nice to have choices.

I agree that they have done more good than bad, still a huge fan.

 

So would I but like the song heard in the soundtrack it’s only a memory. Frankly I don’t give much credence to a photo of T shirt found in the wilds of the internet for color accuracy either. What did that shirt like in 1988? Or a Tide box for that matter? Have you seen the Criterion disc yourself or just looked at those screenshots, which are greatly exaggerated compared to what I experienced watching the actual disc?

 

Found in the wild's of the internet? Do you know the T-shirt? Are you trying to say that this color is not accurate? I can tell you with a certainty that it is absolutely accurate.

I am asking you point blank, is the Tide box ORANGE or RED on your bluray?

Tide's color is copyrighted. It has a distinctive look and examples of this are tightly controlled. To pretend that this doesn't matter seems silly to me, but answering the question would be helpful.

Now one could say that the director intended a Tide box to be red or a pumpkin to be red, or the Motley Crue shirt to be magenta...but which is likely to be true? Did you notice the Adidas shirt right beside it. I know that color as well.

I did not purchase the Bull Durham bluray because of me being cautious with money wasted. Should I get hit by a bus to find out if I get killed? Isn't it smart to do research before blindly following something because of a name?

The Midnight Cowboy bluray purchased was problematic and it looked exactly like the screen shots posted on DVD Beaver. While I pretend it doesn't look horrible, then I put in the old bluray and think....uh yeah it is. The old bluray has its problems, and it isn't as defined, but it also doesn't have the color issue. It is a trade-off. I like the movie that much so I deal with it.

Bull Durham, not nearly as high on the list. Do you blame me for trying to get to the truth? I will probably have to buy it myself to ever get an honest answer because getting one just about anywhere is like pulling frickin' teeth.

Oh and for the record, making sure your tv is properly calibrated is key to getting to that truth. While there seem to be some here that point to the website as some kind of idea that this isn't noticed by others...well nothing could be further from the truth.

The discussions at bluray.com/criterion put that to rest. Many are noticing that there is something really jacked up about this release.

 

I'll keep an eye for that laser!

 

If you listen to the comments saying some not so pc comments you can see why it never made it over. Still a shame though.

I have some old laserdisc extras that I transferred over onto DVD from the Godfather. Some Al Pacino comments that I just couldn't lose.

 

DVDBEAVER has been a constant source of proper information for years for me, despite it having a name like a porn site (still waiting for it to be flagged by IT Security at work!). I'm also a big fan of Criteron's work too.

When it states "restored 4K digital transfer, supervised and approved by director Ron Shelton' what can Criteron possibly do wrong here?

 

Director's can be color blind. They can have differences with the DP...they can be catering to a teal modern look etc....

Don't believe director's can be wrong...see the Peter Jackson Fellowsship...the French Connection (which was reverted back)...Star Wars bluray...etc...

Title does not guarantee correct. As directors age so can their judgment. It is the blindly following titles/companies that scares me.

 

Who should decide if not the director? Someone from the interweb who looks at screenshots for a hobby?
Even if we think it looks wrong, it's not up to us.

 

Often that is how it gets fixed. But no wouldn't call it hobby, I call it shopping wisely for love of film recreation.

The hobby is watching the film in best possible way.

If more people would actually not blind eat what has been spoonfed perhaps the truth might come into play.

If no one complained we would all have arrows with no points on Gladiator?? Remember that recall. There have been dozens of fixes I can think of recently.

You think Friedkin would have changed the bluray if no one complained??? How about Spieberg changing E.T. back.

I get that some people are sheep who will baaaaah all the way over the cliff no matter what direction they are given...but yeah some people just care a little more.

Why criticize? You think its a good thing? Maybe if enough complain we will at least get an explanation.

Do me one favor. If you buy any fixed bluray please take it back, because you are taking advantage of others that worked hard to make sure the product was what it was supposed to be.

I was part of the criticism for Criterion three color White recall and I am happy as hell they fixed it.

 

Directors nearly always approve a new transfer (nearly always, unless the Director is dead). That is how it should be. Maybe during the original production the film studio that funded the film ****ed about with the transfer, they after-all financed it.

Its great that DVDBEAVER point out how different these transfers are, but Criterion are not at fault here. They are just working with what they have been given and that is their mandate to make it the best edition possible with what they have got, and that is why they are market leaders.

 

Cohen put out some good discs too.

 

Not me. The ubiquitousness of that awful color palette forces me to immediately shut off whatever I'm watching. Teal whites? Teal clouds? Teal shirts? Teal snow? I just can't anymore, and as someone into the artistry of cinematography I can't even pretend to tolerate it.

 

Oh Criterion have certainly been the exact reason for screw-ups.

Remember Dressed to Kill with long heads and that replacement?

They may be market leaders now but they have stiff competition and rightly so.

How do you know it is not their fault?

I just want it right, and if so many weren't shooting me the messenger and perhaps reporting back....like a stinking Tide box color we might be able to get to the truth!

Cohen is awesome!

 

Yeah check the difference in encodes for Criterion's release of Mullholland Drive versus the 4k Studio Canal blu ray release. I love CC, but infallible they ain't. This is their business so they need to have some quality control.

 

Like I said great to have worldwide choices. I will never ever be a groupie to a company.

They don't pay my bills and they sure don't have the corner on the truth.

 

what is the rationale behind the teal (and orange) palette? I personally think it's bad Miami Beach and undermines a lot of movies.

I just watched a (pretty good imo) dvd of 'Vanishing Point' (almost any film shot by John Alonzo is worth seeing if not watching). It was a relief to see what actually resembled the film as I remembered seeing it in the theater (several times! Super Soul!) To make an audio analogy, I imagine a 'flat' transfer is less expensive than screwing around with color 'correction' anyways?

Vanishing Point Blu-ray - Barry Newman

 

Would you believe simple laziness? Believe me, I've asked around the industry (trying to be fair, making sure there wasn't something I was missing, and well, yeah...just laziness is the impetus for the awful visual trend).

EDIT: This only refers to the 90% of movies made in the last decade that follow this horrendous trend. The rationale for retroactively forcing this puke colored color timing on classic films of the past? I can only guess as:

 

Totally agree. While viewers may not be aesthetically on board with the digital "tealing" of vintage stocks, it's clearly what the filmmakers want the films to look like in 2018. I think at lot of people think Criterion is some videophile focused label, when in reality they're a film-historical / auteur label. When the director (or DP) is alive Criterion has a strong precedent of trusting how they want their film to be seen in the digital realm. Honestly if they were to release Star Wars, the version they would put out is the 2011 Blu-Ray, with all the boosted colors, and edits since that is clearly how George Lucas wants that film to be seen today.

From Criterion's perspective where do you draw the line? On more mainstream releases, the Blade Runner Final Cut has tweaked colors, new SFX, and it's widely praised in fan and critical circles. Star Wars Special Editions do the same thing, and they are widely critiqued. For them, maybe the new colors on Bull Durham are disliked by some here, while say the tweaks Del Toro made to the DI on Pan's Labyrinth are praised. Director oversight helps differentiate Criterion releases from the much cheaper DVD or Blu-Rays that preceded them, and I don't see why they would start considering what a few people on a forum think is "right" vs what the filmmaker says.

 

Accuracy? Do we just blindly trust what a majority thinks based on worship of what a director changes decades later?

Let us compare. If the Beatles themselves want to tweak all the mono masters I am going to say that this not a good thing.

History should be preserved and standards should be honored.

 

Lol, it’s a commercial product not a historical document. The negatives still exist and I’m sure the earlier scans are all well archived. For the mass market, it appears there’s already a flat graded scan in 1080p on the OG BluRay.

While it might be better if all the directors decided to simply approve a flat scan and let their films be, that’s not their model.

 

This is what keeps me from Sony Cameras.

It’s a trend. I hope it goes the other way soon.

 

No it is art which makes it historically significant as far as I am concerned.

Of course in some cases it isn't just me...you know like the Library of Congress...

 

Another great example of Criterion Collection applying orange & teal to their releases. David Byrne's True Stories....

 

I gotta admit that Midnight Cowboy was not as bad as I thought it would be...but still. They need to stop this crap.