Crosley Revolution portable record player - magnetic cartridge!

Crosley claims the Revolution tracks at under 2g. Could the alignment of the Revolution's cartridge be checked by ordinary means?

 

Another idea, if the Revolution ends up having a ceramic cartridge, what about buying a tracking force scale and using Blu-Tack to lower the tracking force? From what I've read, one of the reasons a ceramic cartridge is used on these things is to increase the gain and thereby negate the need for a preamp. I don't use the internal speaker, I use an external powered speaker, so I shouldn't need the extra gain. I know too little tracking force can damage records too, but there should be a sweet spot in-between too much and too little, right?

The Revolution's form factor is so great that it's worth pursuing something like this.

 

FROM AMAZON REVIEW

First of all, if you are buying this to rip vinyl to digital, look elsewhere. This is more of a cool toy than anything else. What is cool about this is the form factor and some of the features, but it is NOT high fidelity. Don't get me wrong...it isn't horrific, but it's not great.
It's easy to set up. That said, the speed on mine was about 10% fast. Initially, I was disappointed, but if you look underneath you will see two small holes between the battery compartment and the frequency switch. The one closest to the switch is the low speed adjust. Using a small, flat-head screwdriver, you can adjust the speed to the proper setting. Once you adjust the low speed pot using an LP, you can adjust the other "high speed" pot to fine tune the 45 setting. You have to have the low speed adjust first, though. One depends on the other.
It plays LPs far better than it does 45s. A 7 inch 45 doesn't have enough mass to overcome the bad flutter that this unit has. It seems to be tuned for heavier LPs. I may try to dampen the platter a bit to see if that helps. It is listenable, but I wouldn't want to pull a recording from one.
The tonal fidelity is very bright. It does have a ceramic cartridge, so don't use it on expensive 180 gram records. The FM modulator is distorted, headphone jack is OK...USB works as it should. The internal speaker is tinny.
The motor seems to be something you'd find in a cassette deck. It is belt driven, but without mass it is not very smooth. It does "OK."
All this said, would I buy it again? No. In the end, it just fails as a turntable.f

 

Why a portable turntable?


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seems like all you need to add to play recordings of your LPs to earn you "hip professor" points instead of being a neckbeard tweedie.

I post that particular player (Zen Nano Plus (a.k.a. N200)) because, for $20 on eBay, it has this easily overlooked feature, perhaps useful if you don't have a computer turntable recording setup:

Then take your fair-use copy with you instead.

 

chadbang, here's another quote:

http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=45648#p355988

Plenty more where that came from:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...7144732AAORitc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCTNcms8vUA
http://www.amazon.com/review/RL600WX...nodeID=3375251
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...6&postcount=10

The truth is there's conflicting info about this online. I'll call them tomorrow and see what I can come up with.

harby, the idea is that I would be able to play the records I buy while on the road (as I am now) without waiting to get home (which I won't for months). Nice record fair in San Sebastian today BTW.

Can anyone comment on my Blu-Tack tracking force decreasing idea? Any good?

 

I suppose it depends on how counterweighting is achieved. Could be one way to at least experiment with vtf on your "special" records if you can physically affect the counterweight and measure the results.

Hell, I'm more concerned with adjusting the antiskating.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Techn...ectronics_R2&hash=item35be81bdff#ht_500wt_715

im just skeptical of threse designs. i mean even with the cream of the crop you can hear the wow and flutter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qQwiaZdP0k&feature=related

 

Crosley is to the turntable world, what Plain Recordings is to the vinyl reissue world. Both companies are nothing more than people trying to cash it on the latest vinyl upswing at the lowest cost by putting out a seriously inferior product which appeals to newbies and the uninformed, most of whom will move on to better things or just give up on vinyl altogether. As they say, "there's a sucker born every minute". I would find it hard to believe anyone associated with the two companies I've mentioned actually care about vinyl playing or collecting.

As for the Crosley bashing mentioned above, it's not without merit. If you put out nothing but garbage just because you finally decide to step up the quality a bit doesn't mean all is forgiven. Reputation is everything!

 

Plain Recordings? I hadn't hear this one. Not good?

 

Ah, but the white belt, speed box and subplatter mods resolve that issue.

 

How about just attaching some Bu-Tack to the end of the tonearm and measuring the resultant tracking force with a scale?

When I'm doing that, what amount of force should I go for? If the cartridge is ceramic, it looks like the replacement styli specify 3-5g. Should I do 3g or better less? At what point is it too low and potentially damaging?

I don't think there's a thing I can do about anti-skating. Is anti-skating a big enough issue to not play records you care about on a turntable without it?

It's nice to see one available. I'm hesitant to grab a vintage item since it will be lugged around so much.

I don't hear it but if you say you do then I'm sure it's there. Could that be due to the fact that he's playing it vertically? Makes sense to me. If not, how about a record clamp?

This thread isn't about absolving their sins, it's about figuring out if their Revolution will damage vinyl.

 

I was just kidding about the antiskate. And your are correct that too light vtf isn't good either.

I do get why you want this for the road. I do a little traveling as well and I always seem to be stuck somewhere wishing to hear my new-to-me used records that I pick up. However, I may hesitate playing a "prized" find.

I bet if we knew the histories of some of our favorite used records, some of us would be totally disillusioned. I don't remember needing to sweep vinyl shavings from the floor after playing the old Magnavox as a child, maybe I should have. Another time and place... and discussion.

Maybe hold out for something vintage ($$) if the Crosley proves to be as bad as some say.

 

Yes, they specialize in re-releasing 90's era alternative rock that was either NOT on vinyl or was only pressed in small quantities in Europe. Bands like My Bloody Valentine, Spiritualized, Breeders, Ween, etc. Here's a link to their releases:

http://www.discogs.com/label/Plain+Recordings

Anyway, early on I think they billed some releases as from the analog tapes, maybe they were, maybe they weren't, but now it's pretty obvious they are just using a CD to master these. The Mr. Bungle were the worst I've heard. The worst part of it is they remove any impetus by the labels to actually do a proper reissue of these.

 

Thanks for these tips. I was hoping to bring a portable turntable to class because I would use it while discussing albums with particularly significant cover art and liner notes--like the Impulse! LPs with discursive notes by AB Spellman, Hentoff, et al.

You've made me think again of buying a USB turntable just for "ripping" vinyl to digital, for those albums I don't have cds of (or they are too rare and $$). Or would the quality be about the same as just playing 'em from youtube anyway?

 

Well, I emailed Crosley and this is what I got back:

The Crosley CR6002 uses a magnetic cartridge.
Thank you,
Brandon Z. Nichols
Consumer Technical Support Supervisor
Crosley Radio

I have to admit it seems a little too good to be true. Here's a photo of the Revolution's cartridge:

http://thmb.inkfrog.com/thumbn/shoeones/Cartridge_001.jpg

That looks exactly like the cartridge on the Ion iPTUSB I bought which no one is claiming doesn't have a ceramic cartridge.

I don't get it. Half the references online say it has a ceramic cartridge, the other half say it has a magnetic cartridge. Crosley says it's magnetic. It looks ceramic. I guess the only way to solve this is to have one sent out here to Spain along with a tracking force scale and see what I can find out. Pricey.... I'd sure appreciate it if someone could inspect the display model at their local Crosley retailer. Maybe just snap a photo of the underside of the stylus?

 

It appears through searching that the Revolution uses the NP1 stylus (some packages include an extra NP1): http://www.crosleyradio.com/Product.aspx?pid=1727

It looks like the NP1 is for a ceramic cartridge.

 

But LP Gear supplies the NP4 stylus replacement for the Revolution which is a magnetic type stylus.

 

Last post on this today from me, I promise.

The Revolution headshell shape is the one that supports the magnetic cartridge that accepts stylus NP4. It is the third cartridge in this needle replacement video from Crosley : http://www.crosleyradio.com/vhelp.aspx


So, I think the guy from Crosley is correct... as he should be.

 

OK, this has come into focus. If the NP4 stylus is for a magnetic cartridge, then the Revolution must indeed have a magnetic cartridge. The NP4 looks a lot like the NP1 which is for a ceramic cartridge:

http://www.crosleyradio.com/Product.aspx?pid=1783
http://www.crosleyradio.com/Product.aspx?pid=1727

This look-a-like factor must be what is prompting some people to say it has a ceramic cartridge. I posted 5 links previously which all state that the Revolution has a magnetic cartridge, plus LP Gear specifies a magnetic-type stylus for it, plus Crosley themselves told me it has a magnetic cartridge. Best of all, these pages both specify a 1-3g tracking force for the NP4 stylus:

http://www.juno.co.uk/products/crosley-np4-replacement-stylus/453609-01/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stylus-Needle-Turntable-Crosley-NP-4-Director-Produce-/261051558088

Friends, the Crosley Revolution has a magnetic cartridge and perfectly reasonable tracking force. If anyone disagrees at this point, I'd love to hear why. Let us lay the Sound Burger to rest for we have a $100 replacement on Amazon.

I plan to buy the Revolution and a cartridge alignment protractor and also ask around to see if I can find a tracking force scale I can use once to make sure everything is within spec. If there turns out to be a wow and flutter problem, I'll try a record clamp. Other speed problems shouldn't be an issue since the speed can be dialed in via a set of screws.

There is no anti-skating so the inner groove wall will see more wear than the outer, but is that issue small enough to disregard? Any other reasons not to spin quality vinyl on this thing?

 

I emailed Brandon at Crosley again for further clarification and I got this back:

"The cartridge for our CR6002 is a magnetic cartridge. I've attached a picture of the tone arm head with the cartridge on it so you can see it from one of our CR6002's here in the office. The cartridge is silver, which means for our equipment it is magnetic. Black cartridge would be ceramic, but ours is silver, meaning it is magnetic."

Here is a link to the photo he attached:

http://postimage.org/image/kjpy4okih/

 

I once saw a guy bring one of those into a used record store I used to frequent. He must have pulled out a dozen or so LPs to test on that contraption - including some of the higher-priced "collector" records.

I remember thinking to myself that, if I were the store owner, I would have thrown him out on his ear for doing that.

 

Why?

 

This wasn't a yard sale, or a Goodwill outlet. He was doing this at a reputable store, on premium-priced, play graded vinyl.

 

What do you have against a magnetic cartridge with less than 2 grams of tracking force?

 

If the claims of "magnetic cartridge" and "2 grams" were all the reassurance I needed that he wasn't destroying product he wasn't paying for, then I guess I wouldn't have anything against it.

That guy would probably agree with you that there was nothing at all wrong with sampling the store's rare LPs on that plastic toy he brought in.