Curious about the repeating choruses in "Hey Jude" and "Atlantis"

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Khaki F, Oct 21, 2018.

  1. Khaki F

    Khaki F Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Kenosha, WI. USA
    After "Hey Jude" was released, any number of artists wrote songs with long repeating choruses. A few examples that come to mind are T-Rex' "Hot Love", Bowie's "Memory of a Free Festival", Tommy James & The Shondells' "Ball of Fire", and of course Donovan's "Atlantis". But here's the thing: Donovan recorded "Atlantis" in May of 1968, and The Beatles recorded "Hey Jude" in July/August of 1968.

    So... Did Donovan get there first? Rumor has it that McCartney may have sang on Donovan's recording... even played tambourine on it... but according to Wikipedia, that didn't happen. Still... did one artist take their cue from another, or just happy coincidence?
     
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  2. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

     
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  3. Socalguy

    Socalguy Forum Resident

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    CA
    “All You Need Is Love” had a long repeating fade out. It was recorded June 1967.
     
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  4. MikeM

    MikeM Senior Member

    Location:
    Youngstown, Ohio
    Not sure where you're going with this. ALL versions of "Hey Joe," including the many done before Jimi recorded it, consist of the same chord pattern repeated over and over again...right from the start, as opposed to this taking place only at the end a là "Atlantis" and "Hey Jude" (and those ending melodies/chord patterns were new, and differed from the rest of the song).

    Furthermore, the lyrics over the chord pattern differ from iteration to iteration, as opposed to the same lyrics (or "na-na"'s) over and over again.

    The OP is inquiring about the trend that started with these two songs, one that was unrelated to what's going on in "Hey Joe."
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
  5. MikeM

    MikeM Senior Member

    Location:
    Youngstown, Ohio
    True, but unlike "Atlantis" and "Hey Jude," what's being repeated is a phrase and chord pattern that occurred earlier in the song.
     
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  6. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    I wonder if the Hendrix 45 with The Breakaways had an influence on the repeating chant thing with ad libbing lead that Donovan and Paul took further, that's all.

    Listening to Hendrix at the end reminds me of Paul on "Hey Jude". The title similarity adds to the speculation...
     
  7. JozefK

    JozefK Forum Resident

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  8. MikeM

    MikeM Senior Member

    Location:
    Youngstown, Ohio
    Your question has sent me down an interesting rabbit hole of research.

    Donovan denies that Paul participated in the recording of "Atlantis" in any way, vocally or instrumentally, despite several sources that say he did. But it's the chronology that makes your question more interesting.

    Wikipedia states "Atlantis" was recorded in May of 1968. Yet in the text of the article, there are several statements alluding to a November 1968 recording date — which are framed in the context of the debate as to whether Paul could have participated in the recording session.

    In any case, the first release date for "Atlantis" is stated to be November 1968 in the UK — which makes it doubtful the recording session was held that same month (unless the session was very early in the month and the release very late).

    Meanwhile, the US release of "Atlantis" didn't happen until March of 1969. For this reason, it always appeared obvious from here that the ending of "Atlantis" came second, after the "Hey Jude" ending. Now, this doesn't seem so certain.

    "Hey Jude" was composed sometime in June of 1968 and recorded July 31-August 1 of that year. So if the recording session for "Atlantis" did indeed take place in May 1968, obviously Donovan's was the first song to employ the repeated ending refrain — regardless of whether Paul was present for the session or not.
     
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  9. Ern

    Ern Forum Resident

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    Portugal
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  10. Khaki F

    Khaki F Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Kenosha, WI. USA
    Thank you for information, and also the validation. Glad I'm not the only one a little fixated on this at the moment. Welcome aboard LOL
     
  11. MikeM

    MikeM Senior Member

    Location:
    Youngstown, Ohio
    I always wonder where stuff like this comes from. I don't mean to doubt it, but are there session records somewhere that definitively fix the date and the personnel?

    I have to note again, especially since we now seem to have a release date (November 22, 1968), that this seems like an awfully quick turnaround. Even if the session date was very early November, there would still have to be time to mix and master the song, fly the tapes from LA to the UK, press the record and get it out to radio stations and the stores.

    Recall how unusual and notable it was when "Ohio" by Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young was recorded on May 21, 1970 and rush-released in June (exact date not determined). This was always seen as a pretty big deal and contrary to the timetable of most record/release schedules.

    Not that this demonstrates that the song was actually recorded in May 1968. In fact, I wonder what the source of that information is?

    The mystery deepens!
     
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  12. MikeP5877

    MikeP5877 Non-essential

    Location:
    OH
    The cover of Barabajagal says "Atlantis" was recorded in November 1968.
     
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  13. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

  14. beatleroadie

    beatleroadie Forum Resident

    I thought Paul got the idea of repeating a chorus over and over and over and over not from any other song but from meditation, having done a lot of that in the months leading up to writing Hey Jude...
     
  15. dsdu

    dsdu Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    They both were pretty heavily into cannabis at the time........
     
  16. JFS3

    JFS3 Senior Member

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    Hootersville
    Not sure I'd completely rely on Donovan as source on certain details. After all, he insisted for ages that it was Jimmy Page on Hurdy Gurdy Man, and not Alan Parker.
     
  17. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    If the liner notes are correct, and indeed "Atlantis" was recorded in November 1968 in Los Angeles, then Paul could not be playing on it. He was not in California at that time. (Paul had been in NYC with Linda in late October though, but there was no trip by Paul to Los Angeles.)
     
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  18. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    Maybe it was George who “played the tambourine wrong“...

     
  19. bob_32_116

    bob_32_116 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    Irrespective of who got there first, I think Donovan did it better. The Hey Jude "coda" or whatever you call it just goes on far too long.

    Another that I don't think anyone has mentioned is S&G's "The Boxer".
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  20. John B Good

    John B Good Forum Hall Of Fame

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    NS, Canada
    Hey, I was just thinking of starting this thread, or something like it, then this one pops up from2 years ago.

    I was wondering where that style of massively repeated last line of a lyric started.

    For that matter, is there a record holder?
     
  21. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist


     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
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  22. bob_32_116

    bob_32_116 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    The problem could be deciding where the coda, if you call it that, actually starts.

    For example "Give Peace a Chance" is basically the same two lines chanted throughout the song, over and over, but it's also broken by a couple of half-spoken half-sung "verses". Does the whole song qualify, or only the bit after the end of the last verse?
     
  23. Syscrusher

    Syscrusher Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Isnt the repeated chorus thing just a feature of sing-a-longs and not actually something someone invented? While still understanding that this feature would be used in a commercial recording for the first time by somebody somewhere?
     
  24. John B Good

    John B Good Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    NS, Canada
    Listening to Message In a Bottle (above) I think I count upto 45 repetitions...
     
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  25. The “sending out an SOS” at the end of Message In A Bottle and the na na, etc on Hey Jude both go on for at least 30 seconds too long IMO.

    I do like the end of The Dangerous Type by The Cars where they keep on saying “She’s A Lot Like You....the Dangerous Type”. The difference being, as Dangerous Type fades out, more layered harmonies come in, as well as a bell type sound. So as the song fades it gets fuller and more elaborate as opposed to just repeating the same lyrics and music
     

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