DAC suggestions for bedroom system

I'm probably overanlyzing everything, but I thought that the good people on this forum could help me break through my issues. I have a bedroom system consisting of the following components. They are all old ones from various other systems that I have assembled over the years:

Cambridge Audio 840A Azur integrated amplifier
iFi iDSD Micro DAC
Raspberry Pi wth Volumio audio streamer
Cambridge Audio D300 CD player (really more of a transport now)
iFi Phono phono preamp
Rega RP3 turntable
Rega Exact cartridge
Audio Note AX-Two speakers (on Skylan stands)
Morrow Audio cabling

I would like to repurpose the iFi iDSD Micro as a dedicated DAC / headphone amplifier for a set of Sennheiser HD6xx headphones. It means that I would need to put a new DAC into the stereo system.

I have been looking at a couple routes: a DAC from a more established manufacturer (like a used Rega, Pro-Ject or something similar), or a Chinese DAC from one of the brands with which I have limited experience (like Gustard or Topping). I see how well the DACs from the Chinese firms measure, which is great, but the small power supplies give me pause. I figure that there is some price inflation with the more established firms, but many of them are more robustly constructed than the Chinese ones and likely offer some measure of support. Then again, DACs are the most trouble-free components in my system because there are no moving parts to service.

Does anybody have a recommendation for a DAC in the $500 range (or under), either new or used? I'm totally brand agnostic; I just want the best value product. I'm looking at the Gustard X16, but any recommendations would be well taken. Thanks!

 

Go here and filter:
- Type: DAC (Dedicated) + DAC (Multifunction)
- Recommended: Yes
- Set Price Range

FWIW, any time I've emailed SMSL for support they've replied within a day or so.

 

From my own experience I can recommend Topping certainly, sound good, decent build-quality and feature sets.
I have a D50s on my desktop system (with the P50 linear power supply) and a D70s on my hi-fi.

 

I have been on that site and I question the measurments there. The guy behind it often doesn't know which filter he is measuring on selectable filter DACs that affect their results. Also, it seems that he gives only a cursory listen to a lot of the equipment, with most of his listening on headphones, so I have no idea how it would sound in a two-channel home stereo. That's a problem when virtually all of what he is measuring (jitter, SINAD, etc) is below the audible threshold. If even by his own admission, little of what he measures is audible, even on poorly-measuring DACs, what, if anything, separates them? Hence my post asking for more information and recommendations.

 

Indeed, much of that site is based on one guy's measurements under the premise that they give you an impression of how something sounds, which they don't and can't.

 

If something measures poorly, then if it sounds good, it's because it's colored. Part of being an audiophile, IMO, is being able to recognize how and why components that measure poorly produce inadequate sound, even if it initially doesn't seem that way.

 

So what you're saying is that all DACs that "measure well" sound exactly the same? Psst... they don't

 

No, I didn't say that.

 

But you say that a device that "measures poorly" only sounds nice because it's colouring the output signal, thus by deduction anything that measures well won't colour the output... so those should all sound the same? See what I mean?

Not getting at you personally it's just the un-logic of inexperience that is the basis of sites like ASR.
There's nothing in a graph that tells you how a device sounds in your room, on your system, though your speakers/headphones. It's just an echo chamber of neuroses of a subset of people on the internet which imo gives the whole "audiophile" thing a bad rap.

 

Yikes! And they say the same about this place.

 

Just tried my friends' higher end Schiit stack of the Bifrost and Valhalla and it legit sounds "silky" to me it's great (his headphones were the ZMF Verite's). It also looks like iFi came out with a new Zen piece recently the "Zen One Signature" iFi audio | the Award-Winning Audio Technology Company (ifi-audio.com) It's like a Zen DAC Signature with more variety for connectivity. Could perhaps be a good center point in your bedroom setup! How's the Cambridge amp? I've heard great things about them as well. I always thought they were pretty high end.

 

Bifrost 2?

 

Are you sure that the iFi iDSD Micro is adequate to optimally drive HD6xx headphones?

The specs seem underpowered.

Bill

 

Not sure what sort of "sound" you're after - you haven't specified - I've just picked up a Topping D90SE which is above your budget so I'm not necessarily suggesting it as an option. Take from my comments what you will... the DAC is new enough for my judgments to be clouded by 'honeymoon phase' bias... but my point is a broader one.

Having played with significantly higher priced gear before, it strikes me that the price of entry into "high end" digital sound is significantly lower than it was last time I was poking around these parts... and furthermore these Chinese brands entering the market (the one's that have already garnered a bit of a reputation at least) should be welcomed. From many a prior experience with the established brands (and I don't begrudge anyone their enjoyment of those) this sort of performance used to sit behind a significantly higher paywall!

 

No, the iFi Micro iDSD has tons of power. It’s “turbo” mode outputs 4,000mW, which is enough power for virtually anything. Normal mode is 1,000mW which is more than enough for the Sennheisers.

 

I’m looking for a clear and neutral sound. Country of origin doesn’t matter to me. Topping may be interesting but I’m just not that familiar with the brand.

 

Maybe you could find a used Ares II for not much over $500.

 

Only 100 mW @ 300 Ohm in normal mode. What's the output at 300 Ohm in turbo mode?

I remain skeptical that this device delivers enough power to drive HD6xx headphones optimally. These are not 16 Ohm cans.

Bill

 

These days, if you're looking for clean and neutral (vs warm, musical, vinyl-like etc), I would buy around the features you need and not spend more then $200. Clean and neutral DACs are a pretty solved problem at this point, it's the interesting, artistic designs that get spendy. I'd suggest Khadas Toneboard for single-ended output or Schiit Modius if you'd prefer balanced out (which I believe your amp takes) Both of these can either use an external power supply or be powered via USB from your Pi.

 

Just quoted the above as I think it's important for those unsure or new to the hobby read it again.

Data / measurement is a good thing, I'm an engineer and understand the value. Doesn't mean all data / measurement is useful, nor does it mean it can help one decide which piece "sounds" best for them. Humans aren't machines, none of us hear the same thing the same way, a particular sound can make one satisfied, and the other holding their ears. Knowing that, how can we tell two people to buy the same piece of gear because it measures better than another? Logic fail there...

 

@jlykos, I have a SMSL SU8 v2 sitting on a shelf after it was replaced by a Benchmark DAC3 HGC. I used the SMSL for a solid year and was happy with it before upgrading. The Benchmark is better, but it took a bit of time to realize it.

Not looking to sell the SMSL, but if you're not too far, I'll loan it to you so you can get an idea of what one of these well measuring, inexpensive Chinese dacs sounds like. Send me a pm if interested.

 

That's a good concise summary of the measurements fallacy. I would add that group consensus can be useful to make determinations on the sound if demoing isn't an option. Hence the value of this site!

 

Buy just about anything with reasonable reviews behind it. You can't really go wrong. There are so many good and reasonably priced DACs on the market that we are truly spoiled for choice.

I use a Chord Mojo and am very happy with it.

 

I'm using a Cambridge DacMagic 200 in my bedroom and master bath. Besides being a very good dac it supports BT so Cassie can listen to her phone while soaking in the jacuzzi.

 

Sounds like the literal definition of what I hear from this Topping device. Perhaps I'd add refined as an additional qualifier. Lots of detail, but presented as part of the musical "whole" as opposed to metallic, artificial or strident. It seems quite good at separation too... for instance it becomes much easier to tell the number of background singers, or separate harmonies from lead vocals. Imaging is very specific and focused. Even with denser electronic music it becomes much easier to "unravel" the mix. All of which I would consider consistent with a higher resolution sound.

I'm comparing this to the freebie ESS DAC inside my Yamaha amp. Which it turns out was pretty good and perfectly serviceable, but also "greyer", more diffuse, less focused and engaging.

That said, the improvement - and let me say this is unequivocally better, not just different - is smaller than one might think in absolute terms. But it's very clearly there and hard to ignore once you know it is.

As I said in my previous post... this Topping is a convincing entry into proper high end digital sound for comparatively modest outlay. But as I said before - this unit is a little above your stated budget... I don't know what the used market is like for these and I tend to only recommend things I actually know.

So good luck on your search. It strikes me that many of the current options might be more similar than different and reviewers overstate subtleties in a (well-intentioned) attempt to highlight what might be very small differences they perceive in performance. But that is conjecture and the only way to know for sure is listen to a few options and pick the one that suits.