Darlington Labs Phono Preamps

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by DJSpinner, May 2, 2021.

  1. FalseMetal666

    FalseMetal666 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I was going to say, I've read that zero-negative-feedback designs are better at handling sudden, loud ticks/pops better than other designs but no idea from a technical standpoint why that would be.

    Anecdotally, my all-tube, zero feedback preamp certainly seems to handle ticks/pops better than my previous high-feedback designs.
     
  2. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

  3. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Go Padres!!

    Location:
    San Diego
    Interesting. I didn't know that. Cool stuff.
     
  4. austingonzo

    austingonzo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, TX
    I'm at work ATM, so I can't give the thread my full attention at the moment. It appears to be a fascinating technical discussion.

    In my case, the vinyl is thrashed, but as clean as multiple passes in my HumminGuru will get it.

    I'm counting the seconds until someone chides me for buying/playing crappy vinyl, but let me be me, please. ;-)
     
    Boltman92124 likes this.
  5. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Go Padres!!

    Location:
    San Diego
    You might want to be careful with a microline then. Don't want to rip that tiny nude stylus right off cantilever! Maybe try a cheaper conical for beater stuff.
     
    brucej4 likes this.
  6. austingonzo

    austingonzo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Indeed. I have an unused AT VM610MONO cart. I stopped messing with it once I had access to mono switches. So, I can move the conical from that cart over to the cart with the EB stylus and retire the EB stylus. So, the microline for better vinyl, the conical for beater discs.
     
    Boltman92124 likes this.
  7. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Go Padres!!

    Location:
    San Diego
    The EB stylus is probably pretty decent for a bonded I'm guessing. I had the older 100e which was the same thing basically. They used to sell them for $45 back in the day. It sounded quite good but had some IGD and sibilance compared to the nude 120e (530en current model). Still, the 100e was great for well under $100. A good conical to try would be the humble vm95c I think. Supposed to sound excellent for $39. Good beater cart. Damage one, no biggie, get another stylus for $29!
     
  8. austingonzo

    austingonzo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, TX
    yes, but all of my cartridge engines are VM5xx/VM6xx series, therefore the stylus from the AT VM610MONO is the VMN10CB, which is what I will move to the cartridge that *was* the VM520EB. Being delivered today is the VM540ML/H combo, so I can swap the conical and the ML on my Mitsubishi LT-30 without much futzing of weight/tracking adjustments. Stereo/mono switching will be done on the Darlington, so I don't need the strapped mono capabilities of the VM610MONO engine.
     
  9. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Go Padres!!

    Location:
    San Diego
    Is there an advantage to using a mono cart with a mono switch? Enjoy the 540! Tough to beat that cart. No experience with mono LP's though.
     
  10. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict Look what I found

    Location:
    AZ
    In theory, with a mono cart, the signal "summing" is happening at the cartridge, and you shouldn't need to hit the mono switch.

    But if you did (use the mono switch) it's my understanding you're not degrading the signal any further, you're just summing an already summed signal!
     
    Boltman92124 likes this.
  11. krichard2496

    krichard2496 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    This depends on whether the single coil of the mono cartridge is expected to see 47K (i.e., one channel of a standard stereo RIAA input) or 47K/2=23.5K , i.e., two channels of standard stereo RIAA input in parallel.

    We directly sum the inputs together with our mono switch, which for stereo carts is generally ideal (summing the L and R cartridge coils together in parallel cuts the source resistance by half as well).

    Note that the same consideration would happen if a non-DLabs owner utilized a mono Y-adaptor to run his Mono cartridge [with a two-terminal output, rather than four terminals as are standard on a Stereo cartridge] into both channels of his existing Stereo RIAA preamp for downstream system convenience.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2023
    TheVinylAddict likes this.
  12. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Go Padres!!

    Location:
    San Diego
    No advantage over a stereo cart with the mono switch?
     
  13. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict Look what I found

    Location:
    AZ
    If you're running modern mono, either does well (stereo or mono cart)... there are a couple current threads on the topic... prevailing wisdom is if you have a few modern mono's, a good stereo cart and the switch, and you're saving yourself time and money.
     
  14. austingonzo

    austingonzo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, TX
    I have tried external switches, mono buttons on integrated receivers and the strapped mono cart. While each worked fine, I opted to have the mono switch added to the DLab for two reasons: I am not prepared yet to invest in a "true mono" cart, and my Acurus DIA has neither mono switch nor tone controls.
     
    Doc Diego likes this.
  15. RD_57

    RD_57 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    UK
    Ordered an MP-7 to the UK a couple days ago and cannot wait to hear it! It’ll be part of an overhaul including going from Nagaoka MP-200 to Audio Technica OC9XML and getting a SUT too.
     
  16. DJSpinner

    DJSpinner Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Vermont
    Similar upgrades that I made. I'd suggest you make sure to listen to the Nag through the MP-7 before you plug the OC9XML into the mix, so that you can experience the differences that the the MP-7 can deliver.
     
    Dignan2000, Merrick, Dafox and 2 others like this.
  17. RD_57

    RD_57 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    UK
    Noted, thanks.

    What upgrades did you make, out of interest?
     
  18. DJSpinner

    DJSpinner Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Vermont
    I tried the iFi Zen Phono and Schiit Mani 2 before settling into the MP-7 (and SU-7). You can read more detailed reaction/review previously in this thread.
    I haven't tried an SUT yet though...one day.
     
  19. connahjay

    connahjay Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Eugene, Oregon
    I'm looking into getting the Darlington Labs MP-7, but I also just won a iFi Phono2 off ebay for $350....

    I'd like to demo them both together to see which one I prefer, but the iFi Phono2 has overheated and failed on a decent amount folks, and my concern is my used unit may have this ultimate demise too...

    I'm upgrading from a Nagaoka MP-110 to a MP-200, I'm hoping this will blow me away.

    The Audio Technica OC9XML is a big upgrade of the MP-200?!

    Thanks everyone.
     
  20. RD_57

    RD_57 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    UK
    I was originally planning to upgrade to an MP-500 but here in the UK that’d be around £650 and instead I could go full MC for around that figure/ not much more so seemed like a better idea. The MP-200 is by no means a bad cartridge, on the contrary, it has a beautiful midrange and works great with a wide genre of music but it doesn’t handle baked-in sibilance well and I just wanted more detail and clarity from it. I had a Rega Exact before the MP-200 and the latter beats it in everything but sibilance (but that’s owing to the more advanced stylus type on the Exact vs MP-200’s elliptical).
     
    connahjay likes this.
  21. HiFi Guy

    HiFi Guy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lakeland, FL
    It’s not a matter of “if” the iPhono2 will take a dump, but “when”.

    A shame, because the iPhono2 sounded good while it worked.
     
    connahjay likes this.
  22. PrairieBoy

    PrairieBoy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Winnipeg
    I would second that advice. I ran an MP-200 with the MP-7 for 6 months. It's something else. Moved up to the Nagaoka MP-500 about a month ago. I listened to a record tonight through my headphones, for the first time with the MP-500. Al Green Greatest Hits. Lying on the floor with my eyes closed. Cue the sideways looks from my wife. Never heard such separation and detail from that record. Listening to Eldorado by ELO right now. Shaking my head at the sound coming from my modest set up. My vinyl set up can be left alone now for many years to come. MP-7 anchoring my analogue chain.
     
    Ripblade, Merrick, JamsOnly and 13 others like this.
  23. theflattire

    theflattire Forum Resident

    Location:
    Honolulu
    [​IMG]

    As requested, the MP-7 vs PH9.0, after a week of burn in.
    Burn in, as we all know, is de rigueur for Darlington Labs phono stages.

    So how does the $3500 Modwright PH9.0 compare to the MP-7 plus Hashimoto HM-7 combination ($500 + $1300)?
    Sorry MM fans, I no longer possess any MM cart, though I'm working on it.

    First of all, at this level, and yes I'm going to call the MP-7 'at this level' cause if you've been following along at home you know that the old MP-7 (with CM1254 SUT) was pretty damn close to the $2190 Tavish Adagio.
    At this level, its all pretty damn close. For me, there isn't any WTF OMG is this for real moments anymore. They both sound freaking good!
    For fairness, I left the SUT off the Modwright and ran through the MC side which uses Lundahls, albeit less expensive tranformers than the Hashimotos.
    It's difficult to compare because you cannot help but make one sound inferior to the other when neither one should be called inferior. There really isn't a lesser one here, one is just better.

    I A'd first, then B'd, then went back to A; A being the MP-7.
    I wanted to see if there was any gain, then any loss.
    You have to kinda do it this way because the quality is so high, it's all there, it's sort of the only way to compare. It's all grey areas and overlaps; nothing really stands out and pokes your ear.

    Ok, one thing did kinda stand out and was noticeable: the bass was deeper, more resonant on the Modwright. Not that the MP-7 was rolled off or anything, just that the sound was more resonant.
    Besides that, highs and lows were all there, no noticeable short comings. Both were very smooth; no over extending. I didn't miss anything.
    Detail, for the most part, was all there for the MP-7, with the Modwright reaching in just a tad deeper. Certain rhythm guitar parts came forward a bit more as did some percussion instruments.
    Presentation wise, the MP-7 sounded flat. Don't get me wrong, it has a great sound stage, but flatter in comparison, as in the sound in space.
    For lack of a better description (words fail me) the Modwright sounds more 'alive.' I think that's better than calling the MP-7 'dull' which it is NOT.
    With the Modwright, the sound is right there, while with the MP-7 it's a bit further back. More dynamic/full. Does that make sense?
    The MP-7 does take advantage of the HM-7's eerie sound stage, throwing sounds way off to the sides, creating a wide picture.
    I think I said it before, the difference between the two is 'if I didn't hear the other one' kinda comparison.
    Is the Modwright better? Yes.
    Does it walk all over the MP-7? No.
    If I didn't hear the Modwright would I be happy with the MP-7? Yes.
    If I heard the Modwright would I still be happy? Yes, because I would have $2000 in my pocket (ok, less with the SUT/SU-7)!
    You pay for that extra 10%. In case you are wondering, the HM-7/Modwright combo is another +10%.

    So why put a $1800 combo against a $3500 phono stage?
    Well I think the folks at Darlington Labs just wanted to see what their baby could do.
    No shame here. The MP-7 is that good.
    The MP-7 continues to surprise/embarrass me how good it is.
    I don't know how many $500 phono stages can keep up with others costing 4x or more. Not conjecture, but real A/B comparisons by me.
    Thinking about that $1k MC cart? With the MP-7 and a good SUT you won't be leaving much on the table. Which is the reason to get a good phono stage; extracting and sending the best signal to your amp.
    Those of you who have an MP-7 know what I'm talking about, those of you thinking about it, just do it.
    The MP-7 is just as much of an endgame phono stage as the Modwright might be.


    I don't have a less expensive SUT so YMMV. I did run the MP-7 with a Ned Clayton CineMag 1254 for a bit, and it sounded great.
    Oh yeah, don't forget about your back end! Bottlenecks, don't you know. My system in the sig line.
    Cart was an Ortofon MC 20 Super re-tipped with an FG2.
     
    Triffid, 33na3rd, JamsOnly and 12 others like this.
  24. Merrick

    Merrick The return of the Thin White Duke

    Location:
    Portland
    Thank you for this write up! Your comparisons were part of the reason I decided to plunk down the cash on an MP-7. I love bang for your buck gear and it sounds like the MP-7 has some serious bang for the buck!

    Alas my unit is currently on hold as the head engineer is out of the office in a business deal and cannot sign off on outgoing units until his return mid-next week, per the Darlington order status indicator in their FAQ. The most recent outstanding order is from 12/28/22 and I placed my order on 12/29 so I expect mine will ship once those final checks resume.
     
  25. theflattire

    theflattire Forum Resident

    Location:
    Honolulu
    Worth the wait, for sure.
     
    RD_57 and Merrick like this.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine