Dave Clark Five "Facts"

I also remember reading an interview with Lenny where he talks about how he and Mike were asked by Dave to come up with their movie theme song and Mike came up with Having a Wild Weekend and Lenny said he cane up with Catch Us if You can and presented them to Dave and curiously Dave is listed as co-writer on both.

 

It's not conjecture, it's what Ron Ryan has said himself (this comes from his now-defunct website):
When writing songs for the DC5, Ron Ryan would work on his compositions at home then Clark and Mike Smith would come round for a listen. Sometimes Ryan would work on the songs with Smith, but to make it look as if the band were penning their own material (ala Lennon/McCartney), Ryan agreed that Clark would receive the song writing credit. A deal was struck on a handshake between Ryan and Clark that, as soon as the money started rolling in, the songwriter would get a percentage of whatever his songs made.

Ryan's claims do not constitute positive proof of course, because it's his word against Clark's and there was only a handshake deal with no paper trail. But I find him a more credible witness than Clark, who has been proven to be willing to take undeserved credit for the drumming on his records.

 

Given the similarity of Graham's drumming on the DC5 records to his drumming on the early Kinks singles, it seems unlikely Dave Clark directed Graham how to play in any way.

 

Writing Credits from Glad All Over LP:


"Glad All Over" (Clark, Smith) 2:43
2. "All of the Time" (Clark, Smith)2:14
3. "Stay" (Maurice Williams) 2:06
4. "Chaquita" (Clark, Smith)2:12
5. "Do You Love Me" (Berry Gordy Jr.) 2:20
Side two
No. Title Length
6. "Bits and Pieces" (Clark, Smith)1:56
7. "I Know You" (Dave Clark, Lenny Davidson) 1:58
8. "No Time to Lose" (Clark, Smith)2:02
9. "Doo Dah" (Dave Clark, Ron Ryan) 2:21
10. "Time" (Dave Clark, Lenny Davidson) 2:17
11. "She's All Mine" (Dave Clark)

So you are saying Ryan gladly accepted credit for "Doo Dah", but not these others, lol? But he co credited Smith and Davidson? Again, It just doesn't make sense. Since this has become a bash Dave Clark thread, I'm out, almost.

 

What part of "So if Clark answers a question about the drumming on "Bits and Pieces" in such a way as to make it sound like he performed it…" don't you understand?

This is what Clark did in his answer to Max Weinberg.

Since you're being the contrarian here, it's up to you to provide evidence that contradicts what is widely known and sourced: that Bobby Graham played on (at minimum) DC5's biggest hit records — including "Bits and Pieces."

The particular part in question and whether Clark directed Bobby Graham's playing is not the issue here. The issue is WHO PLAYED THE PART ON THE RECORD. By all accounts, it was Bobby Graham. By no accounts was it Dave Clark.

So if Clark answers the question in a manner that implies he played the part, he's lying.

 

Ryan only claims to have written a handful of songs for the band but they were some big ones like Because and Anyway You Want It and he stopped after that song.

 

Your comment (and several others on this thread) has me quite amazed at how the band has fallen off the radar during the past 30 years or so. As a teenager in the 80s, I remember them being played all the time on Oldies radio, especially "Glad All Over," "Over and Over," "Catch Us If You Can" and "Because." Of course, during that time, the band's catalog was out-of-print so radio was the only way to hear them, unless you tracked down the original LP's or 45's. As a result, I remember what big news it was when the History comp came out in 1993. That also seemed to signal the end and the group began its slide into a "forgotten" phase lasting through today.

 

And “Anyway You Want It”!

 

I agree, he probably netted way more money for himself than any of his contemporaries in that time period.

 

I’ve heard he played on the post 66 singles like 19 Days and if you watch the live clip of them from the Royal Command Performance on the PBS special, it sounds like the same drummer.

 

The interesting thing about this story is its account of "Because." The author says Ron Ryan wrote this, but that Dave Clark hated it and stuck it on a B-side in Great Britain. Epic Records in America thought the song was great and wanted to put it out as the band's next A-side, but the article says Clark fought against this.

The story Dave Clark tells is quite different. I'm pretty sure this was in the Weinberg book, but I may have seen it elsewhere. Clark says just the opposite; that Epic was dead-set against releasing "Because" as the band's next single since it wasn't a stomper like all their previous releases. Clark says he had to put his foot down and insist they release it, and crows about the fact that he was proven "right."

Talk about two diametrically opposed accounts! As others have said, given his track record in other regards, I'm inclined to believe the story as told at the above link.

 

Clark couldn't erase Ryan from the LP writing credit because the song had been previously released in the U.K. in September 1963 (before Ryan allegedly co-wrote any of the hit songs).

 

I think, whatever the reasons things turned out the way it did between the relastionship between the band and its' leader, people who have something to protect have a lot of reasons for doing the things they do. If that means taking credit for a lot more than they deserve because their name is on it, or holding all their cards like they're playing Texas Hold 'Em, that's their prerogative. That "credit", and those "cards", is their bread and butter, and nobody dictates what they do with it except them and their stomach.

He's probably kicking himself for holding out for a better CD catalog release deal, but it's his own foot, and his own butt. He's reminding himself every time he thinks of his friendship with Mike Smith, he's responsible for his own decisions, and trying not to think of how they might have effected Mike, or his family. He's counting the money he missed out on every day, whenever he counts the money he didn't. And, whenever he has a chance to set the record straight if there's a microphone pointing his way, and a question he might fear being asked in a moment of weakness, you can bet it's easier on him to just look straight ahead, smile, and say, "Yes. Yes I did."

Anything we say through gnashed teeth while we climb the walls with our fingernails scratching the splinters, is just us looking from the outside in, without Dave Clark's own perspective. We can judge all we want; he doesn't hear us. He's listening to the voices inside his own conscience.

 

And, ya know what? It's threads like these, that remind me of how many classier dudes I'm proud to call myself a fan of.

A few weeks ago I came across an interview with Randy Bachman from more recent times, in which he was given a chance to talk about that spat between he and Burton Cummings that finally soured their relationship for good. It had something to do with promises Burton had made, that he hadn't followed through with, which finally ended all relations between him and his former, pre-solo-career band. It had to do with Randy asking Burton over and over, to give up some either writing credits, or straight-out ownership of something, I don't think any of them had spoken about it in public, just that he was holding onto something (and frankly, it's not really the subject of this post, and I can't say I have a right to know if that's how they want to play it).

The upshot is, Randy said, the feud was over. And how?

He just said, he forgave him.

And his reasonings were the usual, classy reasons: not worth it; can't keep the hate up between friends; only live so long; high finance isn't everything; yadda-de-yadda-de-yadda...he kept his pride, his honor and his soul in check, and did what needed to be done to get right for himself.

Could I do this if I were in that position? Could you?

It gives you an extra appreciation for the drive, the character, and the love that put that guitar into those hands on that stage, or that stage, or whatever stage, on whateverthehell was the best night of his life. And, why he deserved that.

 

Graham's rolls are quite distinctive and they are all over the DC5 hits as well as those first Kinks hits. They are heard more clearly on the DC5 records as those were better recorded. But I do believe I've read somewhere that Clark asked Graham to simplify the drumming so Clark might be able to reproduce the parts live. That sounds plausible to me.

 

His website used to be up, had a long list of records he'd played on. Annoyingly it now seems not to work anymore, you just get an error message. I can't recall if the DC5 records were on that list.

There are interviews with the late great Bobby on Youtube too. Apparently the first session he & Page played on was "Do the Bird" by the Vernons Girls, who believe it or not existed to promote the Vernons football pools!

 

DC is a total tosspot COYS.

 

Bits And Pieces? Fantastic drumming absolutely courtesy of Bobby Graham.

I'll muddy the waters with this: on some of those later '60s / early '70s stereo remixes of things like Bits And Pieces and Glad All Over, you sometimes hear lame, tepid drumming like the stereos were underdubs and Graham was added after the fact. I could believe that. So Clark could conceivably claim he played the part, and he did, and it was completely covered up by a real drummer.

 

Fact: we never got a CD with the proper Stereo mixes...and never will.

 

Based on what Ryan says, he didn't have any say in how the credits were allocated. He didn't "accept" credit for "Doo Dah," rather Dave Clark decided to give him credit for that one but not for the others he wrote or cowrote.

If you don't find Ryan's story credible, that's your opinion. But I think your premise that it's not credible because "doing what Ryan claims to have done would have been too foolish to be believable" isn't a very compelling argument. As I noted, there are dozens (if not hundreds) of musicians and songwriters who have lost their songwriting credits and/or publishing because of the exact same type of "foolishness." What happened to Buddy Holly in particular is extremely similar.

 

Here is the discography from Bobby's defunct website. It does not include any tracks by the DC5 (it's just a partial discography).

 

less than should

 

I guess when you have grandparents from Scotland who used the word quite a bit, it's not surprising that it might pop out of my keyboard every now and then. Didn't mean to cause you any angst. Ron

 

I saw them too.

 

Neither of them should have gotten credit for "Doo Dah"-- It's Camptown Races for chrissakes! By the same token, "No Time to Lose" is "Twist and Shout."