Another thought: Given that Tony Visconti became involved during 2001 and made changes to The London Boys, re-recorded Silly Boy Blue and produced/mixed Uncle Floyd (Slip Away) & Afraid + mixed many of the original 2000 tracks, there is 13 tracks available. Could this maybe have been a 2001 Visconti/Plati/Bowie version of TOY? (tracks in random order): I Dig Everything (Visconti mix) You’ve Got A Habit Of Leaving (Visconti mix) The London Boys (Visconti string arr. + bass) Conversation Piece (Visconti mix) Shadow Man (Visconti mix) Let Me Sleep Beside You (Visconti mix) Hole In The Ground (Visconti mix) Baby Loves That Way (Visconti mix) Can’t Help Thinking About Me (Visconti mix) Silly Boy Blue (Tibet version prod. by Visconti) Your Turn To Drive (Visconti mix) Uncle Floyd (2000/2001 version) Afraid (2000/2001 version) -This would have had 5 previously unreleased songs.
Really I think the covers are amongst the weaker tracks plus a better future. 5.15 angels is a phenomenal track probably the best on the whole album. Special mention for wood Jackson, what a superb bonus track that is, it definitely deserved a place on heathen. That's my problem with heathen 1 or 2 too many covers, I'd have dropped cactus for it, my least favourite track on that album.
Can someone post the DR Numbers for all of the Songs on all 3 CDs in the Toy Box Set(CDs is what I am seeking for DR Numbers, not the Vinyl Records which I assume would be a little higher), as the DRD website only shows the DR results for Toy from the 2001 download and vinyl(I was not aware that Bootleg Vinyl was also made from the 2001 Toy Version)? The DR Numbers for the 2001 Version are very good, and that is surprising if it was mastered by Visconti given his remastering of the recent Bowie Reissued Albums on CD in the last few Career Overview Deluxe Box Sets(aka-Bowie Brickwalled).
Whatever, I simply dislike like the overall tone of Hours/Heathen/Reality (and Blackstar while we're at it). Going all the way, I'm not mad on everything after the first side of Scary Monsters (until The Next Day Extra).
Disc 2 is awesome! Now listen disc 3. I have BA lp box and no need to buy Toy 10” lp box, but who knows
I've gone from initial revulsion to finding it quite funny now in a twisted way. Still atrocious. EG.
It's possible! I don't believe there are Visconti mixes of all of these songs (definitely not "Can't Help Thinking About Me", which didn't even get a Plati mix until the Toy:Box was being prepped) but it's clear that as 2000 led into 2001, Bowie was doing more work with Visconti, still tinkering with Toy tracks, and starting work on "new" material originally planned for Toy but ultimately destined for Heathen.
I feel a Toy/Heathen back to back listen is in the cards for later today. Probably while I watch the Georgia/Alabama game.
I got my physical Toy:Box last night. As others have remarked, it's a barebones affair; you'd think the "lost David Bowie album!" would qualify for at least one essay or explanatory text, but no: the booklet just contains production and track credits, and the artwork for each of the 3 discs is the same. Disappointing. One thing I did notice, however: On CD1, all tracks were mixed at Looking Glass (presumably in 2000/1) except "Can't Help Thinking About Me" and "Karma Man", which are both mixed at Alice's Restaurant (Plati's home studio), and we know "Can't Help Thinking About Me" was only mixed for the first time in preparation for this release (thanks to Plati's Uncut interview), so presumably "Karma Man" is a modern mix, too. So, the only two songs that were not part of the 2011 leak are also the ones that weren't mixed at the time. (It's also worth noting that despite Plati saying the 2011 leak didn't represent final mixes, they all seem to more or less match the mixes we hear on Toy as released, minus mastering and compression). The other thing I noticed is that CD3 (the "unplugged") disc has mixing credits at Looking Glass and Alice's Restaurant. I had assumed, based on pre-release promotion, that all of those mixes were recent, done for the Toy:Box. But - assuming the credits are correct (always a big "if") - at least some of those mixes date from Looking Glass, presumably c. 2000/2001. Semi-related: Listening to Heathen again last night, it's easy to see how "Afraid" (a Toy-era recording) would sound as part of the "unplugged" Toy set, given the prominent acoustic guitar in the right and center channel of the song!
Late to the party.....Toy brings up so many questions (partly thanx to a very meager booklet),but I don't want them to tarnish the music, I'm really trying to focus on playing the album right now, and yes, I am enjoying it immensely I understand it's all a matter of taste but when I read it's all about mediocre worthless material to start with, I am speechless. Flawed , probably, but poor ? I think The London Boys is superb for one. But whatever. Something that itches me is how the tracks were assembled to shape up what is now Toy, the album. (CD1) Very strange Liza Jane is not part of it, considering it's history. Back to the music now...
I got the CD box set, but went vinyl for Toy. I am loving both the alternate versions and the acoustic ones. Several of the alt versions are sonically quite different than the 'main' versions, while others are very similar. I have zero regrets on the box set, and am loving more with each listen. Personally I could see myself listening to the alts more than the main album...I think there's a little more diversity to the sound. If anything, that is my criticism of Toy...it's a pretty standard rock album. Of course take my opinion w/ a grain of salt...I think Black Tie White Noise is pretty easily the best album of this era, and listen to it often. Likewise, I'm no fan of Outside and rarely (if ever) listen to it in whole.
It's not, and was probably never meant to be, the greatest Bowie album ever, but I'm glad we finally have it. EG.
I think that is an important point. When a great artist dies I think there is a tendency to elevate their work to a higher status. And when it becomes clear that a whole album exists in the vaults people want to believe it is a lost classic. However it is important to think of it in the way it was intended. Bowie himself set the expectations for the album before he even recorded it when he said 'not quite Pin Ups 2' which in Bowie-speak is his way of saying that he is referencing that earlier album. As with Pin Ups, Toy is Bowie taking his band into the studio and having fun by bashing out a number of 'covers'. Because his post Tin Machine work is all about being self referential, the big joke about Toy is that rather than covering other artists, he is covering himself.
I haven't listened to Disc Two yet, but so far, I think that the "unplugged" version on Disc Three is going to be my go-to version. Bowie's voice really stands out here, and his folky roots come to the fore - I was telling a friend that it almost serves as a nice bookend to the sound on "Space Oddity/David Bowie".
There is some wonderful drumming on Toy. Especially the track, "You’ve Got A Habit Of Leaving" where is morphs into a Who type ending! Im really enjoying the album and want to purchase it but not sure I can justify the price. I really only want the studio album.
I agree, with one slight variation [in red] I'm guessing the original intended album was as follows (Song order N/A) 1. Uncle Floyd 2. Afraid (Original Mix) 3. "You've Got a Habit of Leaving" (Alternative Mix) 4. "Baby Loves That Way" (Alternative Mix) 5. "Can’t Help Thinking About Me" (Alternative Mix) 6. "I Dig Everything" (Alternative Mix) 7. "The London Boys" (Alternative Version) 8. "Silly Boy Blue" (Alt. Ending Mix) 9. "Let Me Sleep Beside You" (Alternative Mix) 10. "Conversation Piece" (Alternative Mix) 11. "Hole in the Ground" (Alternative Mix) 12. "Shadow Man" (Alternative Mix) 13. "Toy (Your Turn to Drive)" (Alternative Mix) B-sides: "Liza Jane" "In the Heat of the Morning" "Karma Man" I'd like to know what the original proposed track listing was.
I believe a false narrative is being used for the press release of Toy 2021. It sounds better that Bowie moved on because a surprise release in 2001 wasn't possible; as opposed to the label rejecting the album. I have no evidence, just a feeling.
Your post was going so well, until ... I also like the Toy alternative versions best. Did you notice much sound difference between the main Toy album on cd or vinyl ?
BTWN is certainly not the weakest studio album in the latest box set. Toy and Hours can fight that one out
