David Byrne gets too much credit for the musical genius of Talking Heads

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by TMegginson, Dec 6, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. TMegginson

    TMegginson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ottawa
    Presented for discussion:

    Byrne is brilliant. But they were a band. Tina, in particular, was a massive musical force, pushing them forward into funk and hip-hop influences. Their best songs were developed musically, first, before Byrne went off on his own to write the lyrics. They were not "sidemen."

    As a band, Taking Heads were democratic in structure. (I assume that's why later collaborators, like Adrian Belew, were not made official.) Because Chris & Tina are a couple, they represented a united front when it came to band decisions. And as the rhythm section, they provided what's most impressive to me about Fear of Music, Remain In Light, and Speaking in Tongues (and much later, Naked).

    Tom Tom Club had some great grooves, but lacked Byrne's quirky melodies and clever lyrics. Byrne's solo stuff is experimental and cool, but lacks groove.

    I understand why the band broke up. But I am irritated by all the times when Byrne is given all the credit for a band that, for me, was one of the greatest.

    Is it just me?
     
  2. El Rich-o

    El Rich-o Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    Music critics love [David Byrne] because music critics look like [David Byrne]
     
  3. vamborules

    vamborules Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT
    I disagree. I mean, I agree they were a great band, and that Tina is a great bass player.. but David Byrne was undoubtedly the main guy. The credit he gets is deserved.
     
  4. Say It Right

    Say It Right Not for the Hearing Impaired

    Location:
    Niagara Falls
    OK, get where this was coming from (i.e., the other thread). Let's not get carried away though. Tina was not that talented as a bass player. It's why Eno brought Busta Cherry Jones in for the more challenging parts on Remain In Light. Chris Franz was an OK drummer, but not in demand much after TH and TTC. That should tell you something. Them ending married was cute and.part if the image. Musically, they weren't that critical to the overall success.

    Now, as far as your premise, people really need to hear Jerry Harrison - The Red and the Black. His contribution has not been fully acknowledged.
     
  5. Zapruder

    Zapruder Just zis guy, you know?

    Location:
    Ames, IA
    Big time, that record is great.
     
  6. 2141

    2141 Forum Resident

    You're not alone. They were definitely a real band. In fact they were a great example of how much a band can achieve working together. Much more than him as a solo guy with some sidemen would have been able to do. Byrne was the lead singer/songwriter, yes, but they all contributed greatly.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
    polchik, Porkpie, applejam101 and 4 others like this.
  7. Say It Right

    Say It Right Not for the Hearing Impaired

    Location:
    Niagara Falls
    She was passable. Having a woman play bass was a great gimmick then. Every other indie band has a woman bass player now. All of them are better players.
     
  8. Say It Right

    Say It Right Not for the Hearing Impaired

    Location:
    Niagara Falls
    + 1000
     
    kt66brooklyn likes this.
  9. TMegginson

    TMegginson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ottawa
    I'm talking about musical direction. Tina & Chris were the ones who were moving the band's music into a funkier place, bringing in new influences. And as I pointed out in the OP, the actual music that made Talking Heads so great was always the result of the four of them playing together. David's vocal layer always came later. This process is well-documented.
     
  10. vamborules

    vamborules Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT
    Incorrect. Tina Weymouth is a great bass player.
     
    Dan C, Stanton56, polchik and 31 others like this.
  11. TMegginson

    TMegginson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ottawa
    *

    *Citation needed. Busta wasn't even on the studio album.
     
  12. TMegginson

    TMegginson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ottawa
    Some people just don't like women on bass or drums.
     
    rvintamin, uzn007, dkmonroe and 10 others like this.
  13. dthomas850

    dthomas850 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio
    I strongly disagree that Byrne's solo stuff "lacks groove"
     
    dee, Merrick, marc with a c and 4 others like this.
  14. Zapruder

    Zapruder Just zis guy, you know?

    Location:
    Ames, IA
    I thought that was largely Eno?
     
  15. Say It Right

    Say It Right Not for the Hearing Impaired

    Location:
    Niagara Falls
    Stand corrected. Harrison, Byrne and Eno, in addition to Tina, played bass. So, we don't know what great bass parts were hers. Busta Cherry DID perform on the tour. If she was that great, nobody else needed to cover for her though. Right?
     
    Rubberpigg and bpmd1962 like this.
  16. TMegginson

    TMegginson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ottawa
    It was because they used so many overdubs in the studio that they needed additional players to do it live.
     
  17. TMegginson

    TMegginson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ottawa
    Eno's talent was as a disrupter, getting his collaborators out of their comfort zones. He is anything but funky.
     
  18. Say It Right

    Say It Right Not for the Hearing Impaired

    Location:
    Niagara Falls
    Then she should've been able to shoulder the load herself. Should've been in demand to guest with other artists...but she wasn't...
     
    YourFairyKing and kt66brooklyn like this.
  19. Say It Right

    Say It Right Not for the Hearing Impaired

    Location:
    Niagara Falls
    Yeah, that must be why Eno was a sought after producer and collaborator after cutting ties with TH. What has Chris & Tina done since?
     
    JoeRockhead, Fullbug and kt66brooklyn like this.
  20. Zapruder

    Zapruder Just zis guy, you know?

    Location:
    Ames, IA
    Huh? He's pretty widely known to have introduced Byrne to Afrobeat.
     
  21. TMegginson

    TMegginson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ottawa
    She started two of her own bands. Honestly, Tina's talents and contributions are not exactly unknown. Her basslines drove many of the best songs of the 70s and 80s. She has nothing else to prove.
     
    Willowman, Joe N, Dan C and 19 others like this.
  22. fallbreaks

    fallbreaks Forum Resident

    Totally disagree. In the early trio days, Tina was the only melodic element in the band aside from Byrne’s melodies. She served as bassist and de facto lead guitarist, providing both the groove and melodic counterpoint to David’s rhythm guitar. She was no ‘gimmick’. Their first single is instantly identifiable by its solo bassline - please direct us to a man who did that right out of the gate.

    When they added Jerry, he was able to provide additional texture and occasional lead work, and he did a wonderful job in his role. But Tina kept doing her thing. Listen to the 1980/1 live version of Cities from The Name of This Band. That’s all Tina - tight line, and the only melodic element aside from the vocal and Belew’s chainsaw guitar. That is a sweet line during the chorus, and funky.

    The bigger David’s ego got the more he sought to diminish her role along with the others. There’s a reason why the last few Talking Heads albums aren’t as good. Too much David, not enough Tina, Chris and Jerry. The fact that David’s never had a solo record as good as Genius of Love must really bother him. David’s never made a classic record without Tina. But Tina’s made one without him.

    I dearly love Talking Heads. They were a band.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
    Willowman, Lanark, Dan C and 43 others like this.
  23. Avenging Robot

    Avenging Robot Senior Member

    This is why they have never reunited. Tina and Chris were a trio with David. People at the time were telling them to dump "weird" David. Then Tina got attention for being a female playing bass. Then Jerry joined and arranged songs. By the time True Stories came out, David was getting credit for everything. Tina is most vocal in that everyone else in Talking Heads were not given the appropriate amount of credit. The fact that David hasn't wanted to reunite for the past 20-odd years makes Tina extra angry that alienates David even further makes it a vicious cycle.

    From an accountants standpoint each year they hold out, they get less money for reunions. Back in the '90s they could have named their price, that time is long over...
     
  24. TMegginson

    TMegginson Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ottawa
    All of the Talking Heads albums after Remain In Light, and another band that had a wildly successful debut album?

    Eno is awesome. He gets all the credit for Bowie's late-70s work as well, even though he produced none of it.

    Appreciating one artist does not require diminishing another.
     
    Rojo, kt66brooklyn, Mr__Hump and 6 others like this.
  25. VinchVolt123

    VinchVolt123 I took a look at those hands.

    Location:
    California
    The way I see it, the "sound" of Talking Heads came from two sides. On one side there was Byrne, who was the main songwriter & lyricist for the band; he was able to pen entertaining lyrics about mundane subject matter and set them to unconventional art punk melodies that stood out from the crowd. On the other side were Chris, Tina, and later Jerry, who excelled at arranging Byrne's songs in a funkier direction, and with Brian Eno's ambient-influenced and comfort zone-shattering production methods aiding them, they managed to take the good songs Byrne wrote and turn them into something even greater, in addition to the full-band collaborations on Remain in Light and Speaking in Tongues.

    I agree that those three were the ones who made Talking Heads "groovy," though if No Talking, Just Head is any indication, writing actual songs is where they fall short. From what I can tell, this may have been a factor in why Byrne moved away from the sound of Talking Heads in his solo career, combined with him just wanting to separate himself from the past. Frankly, I wouldn't blame him for either; funky post-punk is more his former bandmates' strong suit, and if he tried to replicate it it'd just make him look like someone desperate to cling on the past success. Thus, he just decided to make whatever else he felt like doing, whether it be Latin funk, orchestral pop, alternative rock, gospel folktronica, a pop opera (popera?) about the former first lady of the Philippines, or even a uniquely Byrnian take on 21st century electropop.

    In a way you could also thank David Bowie for indirectly contributing to some of the sound of Talking Heads, considering how some tracks on the Eno-produced "Heroes" and Lodger (particularly the faster ones) sound pretty similar in style to what Talking Heads would put out under Eno's guidance (deliberate stylistic imitation on Bowie's "DJ" aside).
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine