Days of Future Passed Original Mix Differences/Catalog Number? *

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Sidewinder43, Mar 4, 2010.

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  1. Just curious, is yours a stamped promo copy? Mine is, as well as all of the other copies I've seen (which admittedly is just a handful... It's a fairly scarce record). I have a feeling the monos - fold-downs, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread - were radio station promos only and that it wasn't sold in stores.
     
  2. JamesD1957

    JamesD1957 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cypress, Texas
    Picked up a US copy yesterday at a thrift store, but I can't find any information about the copy I have. In the deadwax: Side 1 - There is a 1t followed by space, and then reads ZAL 8078-16. There are three dots under the 16. Side 2 - There is a 1t followed by space, and then reads ZAL 8078-18. There are three dots under the 18. Does anyone have information about this press? I checked discogs but didn't see a copy with that information in the deadwax.
     
  3. stevemoss

    stevemoss Forum Resident

    By the way...

    The original 1967 stereo mixes of "Dawn Is A Feeling" and "Peak Hour" were finally issued on CD in the 2013 "Timeless Flight" box set. They sound great.
    The '67 mixes of "Tuesday Afternoon" and "Nights In White Satin" are also included there.

    Roughly half of the album's original mix is now officially out digitally, and the tracks are from both sides of the album (so it's not like the reel for side 2 is missing or something).


    I should also note that Steve put the original '67 mix of "Nights In White Satin" on the Audio Fidelity "Legends: Crank It Up" SACD.
    Might be worth asking him what sort of shape the tapes were, in 2014, rather than speculating.
     
  4. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    The 1t indicates a Terre Haute pressing, I think (possibly for the Columbia House club). You may have this version or a similar one: http://www.discogs.com/The-Moody-Blues-Days-Of-Future-Passed/release/2575861
     
  5. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Some of us aren't speculating.
     
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  6. chewy

    chewy Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Coast USA

    good question! no promo sticker, no promo stamp. yes cutout hole if i recall, but no words to denote promo- u think mines still a promo? i dunnno
     
    Shawn likes this.
  7. The ones I've seen have all been hand-stamped 'promo' on the back cover... Some very lightly. But maybe yours is a promo due to the cutout hole (which are often used to designate promos).
     
    McLover likes this.
  8. JamesD1957

    JamesD1957 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cypress, Texas
    I looked at it. The numbers after the - are higher on my copy, but all else is the same. It's not a sonic wonder by any stretch, but I do enjoy hearing the 67 mix with the vocal harmonies and some other instrumentation present. Just wish there was a 67 mix that wasn't this muddy.
     
  9. Raunchnroll

    Raunchnroll Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    No one posting here has a freakin' clue what condition the master tape is in.
     
  10. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Believe what you wish.
     
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  11. Raunchnroll

    Raunchnroll Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    The US copy I've seen has a white rectangular sticker stuck on the front cover with red text:

    Promotional
    Copy
    Not For Sale​

    The record is Monarch pressing with the Bell Sound stamp + Sam Feldman initials scribed next to it. The label is the 'stock' Deram brown/white version. Not marked in any way as a promo.
     
    Shawn likes this.
  12. Raunchnroll

    Raunchnroll Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    I know.
     
  13. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    "It's as simple as that"

     
  14. Raunchnroll

    Raunchnroll Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    There is little question that well preserved copy tapes exist out there. Reliable first hand sources commenting on the deterioration of the DOFP 1st UK stereo master are fairly easy to locate. A good read for any Moody's fan is is this Derek Varnals interview, noting the problems with the 1st UK stereo master tape.

    http://www.freewebs.com/rainbow_glo/6910derekvarnalsqa.htm
     
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  15. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Based on this thread and several others here, that isn't true at all.
     
  16. Raunchnroll

    Raunchnroll Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Thats a bizarre response. Actually it is true - but thats mostly based on information NOT in this thread. But even here its at least partly true, you even quoted Bill Levensen's post confirming a US copy tape is in good shape. You're just being contrary again for whatever reason.
    There are other (outside the forum) sources associated with the Moodies and the label confirming several good copy tapes exist. I'll defer to their knowledge.
     
  17. millbend

    millbend Forum Resident

    Location:
    North America
    I think what he meant by that is there's NO question of it, not even a little.
     
  18. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    You seem to be confused. I have repeatedly pointed out that the original mix exists. Then you claimed:

    "There is little question that well preserved copy tapes exist out there."

    That isn't true. People continue to question this, including in this thread. If there was "little question", I wouldn't be responding to people suggesting the only tapes of that mix are damaged or lost.

    There *should* be no question that the original mix is intact, yet people continue to assume otherwise.
     
  19. Raunchnroll

    Raunchnroll Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    I am not at all confused. My statement there are copy tapes (of the original mix) is accurate and true - I referred to Varnals and Levenson's own words. But I see where a mis-communication is occurring. People are mistaking mixes and tapes - two different things.

    There are several 'copy tapes' still existing which were made from the original UK stereo mix master tape. The original UK stereo master tape is, direct from knowledgeable sources, deteriorated or has problems. However.....copies of that original UK stereo master, made to send to different countries (such as the US) still exist. So yes - the original mix still exists, preserved on copy tapes. Hopefully they're 1:1.

    The copy tape sent to the US was sent to Bell Sound studios in NY. Bell Sound had a standardized practice for cutting lacquers; they would make a copy tape of whatever tape they received and add certain EQ adjustments including that 'signature' mid-range frequency hump Bell Sound pressings are well known for. For DOFP Bell Sound made stereo and mono copy tapes to cut the stereo & mono lacquers. The first or original US stereos and mono LPs are Bell Sound mastered jobs. Made from a copy of a copy.
     
  20. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    While it may be the case, I still have doubts about the UK master tape being unusable. The original mix has *always* had odd shifts in tonality and the stereo image, which could be mistaken for tape damage.

    Not all US copies are Bell Sound cuts, and the non-Bell cuts don't have the signature Bell EQ, so presumably those did not use a Bell copy tape.
     
  21. Raunchnroll

    Raunchnroll Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Whether its usable or not I don't know. There are some audio fans who've made exceedingly generalized vague claims on-line that the recording or mix itself is wonky and being mistaken for tape damage. But I don't give much weight into their statements. Who knows what systems or even media source they're listening to. Interestingly, Varnals expressed some views about the actual tape they used itself, not what they put on it. From my listening, especially to a clean UK pressing, theres nothing wrong or glaring about the recording. A little veiled (soft) on top, some technical effects (per their next couple albums as well) but so what..... on a good system, with the right pressing, its still a clear & eminently musical recording.

    As far as non-Bell Sound cuts, the best sounding ones I've seen / owned are made by Bestway or Philips/Mecury, but made no earlier than around 1970 and later. Some of the Mercury/Philips have Gilbert Kong's initials G.K. As mentioned, Bell Sound apparently did not use the copy tape sent to them, instead, they'd treat it as their master and make a cutting tape from it. Whatever happened to those Bell 'master' copies -- who knows? I don't know for a fact they even kept 'em.

    Many later pressings are made from a superior source than the first or original pressing made by Bell Sounds in the late 60's. One of those odd exceptions to the first pressing sounds best rule. These later US pressings are really very nice and affordable. They don't have quite the silkiness and presence of a good first UK, but thats because the UK was made with a lower gen. tape and better vinyl.
     
  22. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    There are definitely issues with the original mix even on original UK pressings. My 1W/2W copy has all of the same oddities (sudden shifts in balance and EQ) that could be mistaken for tape damage. The point isn't whether it's "wrong" or "eminently musical" or not, it's that the mix itself has oddities that would normally suggest some sort of technical problem.
     
  23. Raunchnroll

    Raunchnroll Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    There are 'issues' with most mixes & recordings. The very life of this forum illustrates how prevalent this is. Sonic peculiarities are usually discernible from tape damage. I've read over the years similar comments about In Search of and Threshold of a Dream. Its largely attributable to the average commenters unfamiliarity with the recording, mixing, mastering, transferring to one type of media or the other, the role of their system, the chain of components in that system, etc. The issue tends to be magnified on CDs of older recordings, as for example the endless debates about sources and mastering of David Bowie's digital catalog.
     
  24. PixieStix

    PixieStix Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    Maybe this has been discussed before, but I always wondered why the remix has a loud pop at the :16 sec mark in Tuesday Afternoon wich is not present on the original mix.
    Its on my wg original CD & The Mofi CD.
     
  25. Bob J

    Bob J Forum Resident

    I recently picked up the MoFi CD and I don't hear any kind of pop on "Tuesday Afternoon". I also came across a copy of the Sterling pressing of the LP that's in nice condition. I compared it to my Gilbert Kong pressing and the Kong is noticeably brighter and clearer. The Sterling copy sounds veiled and muffled in comparison.
     
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