I must ask this question. I have heard MANY people on different forms state that the DCC vinyl pressing of Aqualung was VERY MUCH inferior to the mfsl pressing. Now, I own the DCC pressing and always thought it sounded good to my ears. But when I read about so many people saying that this is one that mofi got so right and DCC got so wrong, I have to ask the people of this board their HONEST opinion. I realize this is a DCC board, so once again I say HONEST opinion. I have not had the opportunity to compare the two myself. Is the difference as big as everyone is saying? They say the mofi is clear and open with deep bass in comparison to the bland sounding dcc pressing. No disrespect steve, but this is what I have read from almost ALL of the opinions online.When all these people are saying the same thing, I want to know from the members here if they feel the same way. Was this a rare "bad" transfer by Steve?
If you want the DCC LP to sound like the MFSL LP, just push in the "loudness control" button on your Pioneer receiver. That way, at the touch of a button, you can have both versions on one LP. Save time and money.
I own a very first pressing of Mofi's Aqualung and DCC's vinyl remaster and Gold CD. I did a very hard A/B testing with an Well Tempered Signature turntable with Lyra Parnassus cartridge... Cadence phono preamp... Wilson Audio (they do not mask!) loudspeakers... So my honest opinion is: As I heard the Mofi LP I thought... oh my god what a wonderful open sound! Yes, Stan Ricker did a very good job turning the knobs on the eq. But DCC's LP sounds closer to me! I wouldn't like to say closer to the mastertape, because I have never seen and heard the mastertape! I do prefer Steve Hoffman's remaster, but it sounds like it should be to my opinion. Period!
As I stated Steve, NO DISRESPECT was meant to you. I never compared the two. (By the way, I don't have a pioneer--lol--Audible Illusions, Krell, VPI,etc) This is one pressing where I would continue to read such strong opinions in favor of the mofi. So what you are saying is that mofi turned up the treble and bass in much the same way that they did for the Beatles releases. I guess in this instance, the result was not accurate but (based on opinion) very euphonic.
I've read some of these opinions recently on Audio Asylum and I didn't respond because at the present time I do not own the DCC or MFSL versions of "Aqualung" (I do own a first pressing of it). What can I say not hearing them to compare? Not that much but maybe a few incidental things. I know (from what Steve has stated & what I hear on the product) that the DCC version uses the "absolute" master tapes. I think it took Steve several, several years to get the master from Ian Anderson's garage ("Oh, the Master, I thought you meant me Scooter"). What was the source for the MFSL version? I know also that Steve doesn't compromise his mastering work to please expected or average-popular taste (pump up da volume/give me that 10k range baby, add some reverb to the sizzle). He has said many times that he does what he enjoys and is happy that others like it too. MFSL has done many great titles but we also know that they've fudged EQ-curves to give a greater, instant impact on average to sub-par systems (Stan Ricker wasn't too pleased about his instructions for the Beatles' albums/why, oh why?). Maybe some of the really negative posters (them people typing/not advertisements for movies) paid full Ebay prices (an arm, a leg & a bit of zee privates) and they need to believe it is "the" version to own and damn any other ones (I've suffered from this spot of human nature from time to time/Sometimes a trendy, expensive restuarant's food is just silver-foiled garbage but we are in deniel about it). Maybe it's also one's taste. I love the "Breath of life" Steve brings to these records/CD's with his mastering ethics. Maybe some people are expecting or are used to something else? Am I defending a DCC product blind because I never heard it or the MFSL version? Yes, because I own a lot of Steve's work and I enjoy the level of thought and quality that goes into it and I trust that the same attention is there for the other ones. If Steve thought he did a poor job or didn't think it stacked up to something else then he would say so (as he's done in the past). We're talking about reputations here and what is fair. I'd hate someone to bad mouth my acting or music (I may miss the mark sometimes but I put a hell of a lot of work into what I do). Anyway, one day I will buy the DCC version of "Aqualung" (because again, I trust the integrity of Steve's methods) and I'm sure I will enjoy it... Todd
One last point from me. Please understand that my asking why so many prefer the mfsl in no way puts Steve "down." They are different pressings and therefore sound different. What prompted me to post was the fact that SO MANY people chose the mfsl title. Realize that MOST opinions on audio boards are usually NEGATIVE concerning mofi pressings due to the eq'ing that took place. My only point was that IN THIS INSTANCE, the eq'ing apparently (based on what others are saying)paid off in what must have resulted in a very pleasing eq curve. And don't tell me that ALL of these opinions are coming from people with sub-par systems. As I stated, I love what I hear from my DCC Aqualung pressing. But I have to wonder what "magic" all these other people are talking about when it comes to the mfsl pressing. I guess it comes down to euphonic vs accuracy. Kind of like Tubes vs solid state. Now I know Steve is with me on that. Tubes give you some "magic" (maybe not accurate) that even the best solid state can't give you.
The MFSL vinyl sounded so far removed from the original UK Island vinyl that I thought it was a remix. This album has very little in the way of dynamics, top or bottom end. MFSL, as Steve said, literally used a loudness contour to goose it up. That's why people like it
Sam, No offense taken! The deal with Aqualung is this: Great album, average recording. What I tried to do, was to give you the true sound of the master tapes with a bit of "Steve enhancemnt" thrown in for a more "Breath Of Life" sound. Now, I can't go back in time and tell the mixer of "Aqualung" to turn the bass guitar track up, but I would never EQ in a bunch of floppy rumble down there just to get some extra boom. I mean, ****, it took me years just to get the real tapes from Ian's house. MFSL used the American EQ copy (production master) to cut from. This version already was compressed compared to the master tape, and some primitive EQ added in. Now, it is a know fact that MOST (but not all) music fans LIKE compression. They respond well to it. It makes stuff louder and more "exciting". And of course, adding the MFSL "smile curve" helps, too. Just adds that oomph that doesn't exist in real life. Same reason most folks love new "remasters". Louder is everything...Sigh. For me, using all of the tone changing stuff that was added to the EQ dub, and then adding all of the MoFi EQ on top of it, with some wacky half speed mastering on top of it....Well, I just didn't want to distort the original sound of the hard-fought master tapes that way. I like the way the DCC version sounds. It has natural vocals, and a tonality that is missing from ALL other versions. The problem with Rock 'em - Sock 'em bass, is that it is like having a subwoofer turned on all of the time. After it's all over, you have a headache. Folks can dial in some thump down there if they want. The important thing, is that they can dial it OUT again when they grow weary of that sound! One other little point: People who listen to LP's (I'm one of them), have a really tough time describing what they are hearing, tone wise, because no one else's LP playback system will match theirs. MC Carts have their own wacky sound, as do phono preamps: How RIAA accurate are they? And the interconntects, etc. Are they tailoring the sound? Hard to say what is accurate, when the LP playback system isn't. The best way (if you care), to tell if your LP playback is "in the ballpark" tone wise, is to compare your DCC CD of "Aqualung" with the DCC LP of "Aqualung". After adjusting for the LEVEL difference, Do A sync-up and A/B them. The tone of the music should be darn close; they were when we cut them. If the sound is too far off from the CD to LP, then something is out of whack, probably with the phono gear.
Sam, I understand where you were coming from. You had a legit question about a lot of opinions circulating out there. My ranting post wasn't meant or intended to be directed at you. I just was getting annoyed at some stuff I was reading earlier today. I have a few suggestions... Listen to the DCC version again and judge it for what it is. Is it enjoyable or does it leave you feeling like you're missing something? If you're still curious about the MFSL version then you can buy it from a dealer or maybe you can get someone to burn a copy for you. Also, we all have our own opinions about this & that but you are the final judge. Sometimes even the best critics get it wrong (what were they smoking?)... Todd
Does this mean that I'll have to go out and buy all the gold cds I can find(I think my wife just hired a hit man). To find out what my vinyl is supposed to sound like? My wallet can't take it.
Thanks Steve for the information. To be honest, the reason I never went for the mofi is because ever time I put on the DCC version, I'm like "Man, that was great." I never felt the need sonically. So it always "bothered" me when all these other people kept saying the mofi is the way to go. Bottom line is ---THEY NEVER HAD THE MASTER TAPE. They did that once before with Magical Mystery tour. That's one of the Beatles mofi's I don't own. I have the German pressing with true stereo throughout. Don't get me wrong- - - I love Stan Ricker and old mofi for what they gave us for years. And I treasure your mastered lp's with DCC. I wish there were more mastering people like you who really care. I hope to see more of your vinyl in the future. Been waiting for the soft parade and Morrison Hotel. Take care.
Andy, But your ears will love you... I've done that before in the past to help check the tone and balance between my CD player and turntable. It shows a lot of strengths/weaknessess between the two formats. Headphones are useful during some listening tests also. I find my living room (NYC apartments, if only I could have a "listening room") adds the most common coloring signature to my music playback. There isn't much I can do with the room (my wife is understanding enough) but I can live with it. I'm currently on certain recordings really enjoying listening to the decay of notes (especially piano) and the timbre of voices. I listened to a 50's "mono" pressing of "Satch Plays Fats" (Armstrong had that amazing rasp in his breath/it's incredible how it kind of slithered) and it was fun being hearing him double-track his vocals... Todd
Wow - great thread tonight! I own the MOFI vinyl and DCC Gold CD of Aqualung...I really love the Gold CD and I really love the MOFI vinyl...helpful,huh? The CD is a little more "dry," a little more "exact,"...format or mix...mastering or loudness? Colder or warmer? The vinyl is awesome - sounds great, less filling - I love it! Then again, the CD is unmatched. I mean, the thing totally kicks a**, one of the all-time greats ever issued by DCC... I've never even seen a copy of the DCC "Aqualung" vinyl...would love to score one...I couldn't live without my Gold CD's and OMR vinyl from both DCC or MFSL, either. I'm glad to have 'em all in my collection - both vinyl and CD's. There's a lot to love about both companies...I just wish DCC would get the $$$ it needs and start issuing again...well, we will wait and see. Best to the Board! Ben
I guess I should have known somethin was up when that turntable salesman told me I was missing some thing with cd.
Steve, is this true of *all* DCC titles that have been issued in both formats? Just curious. Take a review like this one of the DCC Van Halen, where he talks of the differences between LP and CD. Are these just due to various colorations of the CD and vinyl playback chains? [ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: Patrick M ]
Patrick asks: "Take a review like this one of the DCC Van Halen, where he talks of the differences between LP and CD. Are these just due to various colorations of the CD and vinyl playback chains?" Steve answers: Yes, just differences due to colorations. But, also, an analog LP (at least in the outside part) will have more "resolution" than a CD. BUT, tonality SHOULD MATCH PRETTY DARN CLOSE! 'Cause it did in the studio, you know! Most DCC LP's should match their DCC Gold CD counterparts pretty well. Pet Sounds, Willie & The Poorboys and most others, matched in tonality when we compared them in the studio during cutting. One or two later DCC LP's will sound a bit different due to a slightly different mastering approach: The Doors' first is all I can think of at this late hour. But, all in all, generally I use THE SAME mastering approach FOR BOTH MY LP AND CD MASTERINGS. Heck, if I didn't, something would be wrong somewhere, right? So, they should match, tone wise from Digital to LP.... Got that? [ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: Steve Hoffman ]
Steve, any idea what the background bass noise in "My God" is? It drove me insane on all the original vinyl (UK) pressings, but it appears to be on the tapes. The sound of Benefit and Aqualung really suffered compared with Stand Up and Thick as a Brick - where's Clive Bunker? Oh, he couldn't fit in the studio, so were recording him in the toilet with a cardboard box for a snare and a snare for a bass drum
such a coincidence that this topic comes up and i received my DCC aqualung LP last night. of course i was also weary of all the negative talk i had heard about this album so listened a little more closely than usual. firstly i unsderstand the comments about it appearing dry (not that i have MoFi version to compare) especially as the first track "aqualung" is especially so, after that the dynamics pick up on mother goose etc. now i listened to a lot of my jethro last night and i would say on the whole they all tend towards this dry sound. so i think steve got it right one must just realise that not all music even "great" albums aren't well recorded. along with the aqualung LP i got DCC's fresh cream and classic's ZEP II. first of all fresh cream is excellent the best i ever heard of cream although i have to say cream weren't the greatest in the studio as far as sonics are concerned. the drums are almost hidden in the mix comparing that to the incredible sonics on Zep II well no contest. The version of heartbreaker is a killer...jimmy playing guitar in my living room.
Better late than never! Pretty interesting to see who some of the old-timers are from original forum!
That background deep bass "noise" during My God wasn't present on either the DCC CD (IIRC) or the Steven Wilson remix, but was quite obvious on a couple of Island and later Chrysalis vinyl copies I tried. Maybe it was a bad vinyl cut in the UK?
What do folk think of the flat transfer from the original stereo master of the album in 96/24 LPCM stereo on the second dvd in the Aqualung deluxe set in comparison to the DCC and MFSL?
Wow, I started this thread so many years ago! I'm still here as well! I still have the DCC vinyl, and now I've added the UHQR to my collection. Steve, I still love and visit this forum daily. It's become part of my life. Thank you for making it possible.
