Decware Zen Triode amp

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by David Sonnier, May 14, 2021.

  1. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    Congrats Jasper! That amp will just keep sounding better and better. . . year after year. . . a seasoned Decware amp is really something.
     
  2. JasperYYJ

    JasperYYJ Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    I have definitely noticed a significant change in the sound (for the better) in the first 25 hours! I've never been a huge believer in break in/burn in, but the amp has changed my view on that. Though with that said I did drop in some brand new Canare 4S11 cables I DIY'd at the exact same time so that might be impacting the transition as well.

    Even though I thought the Zen Triode sounded pristine and perfect at first listen, with the benefit of hindsight now being 25 hours in, out of the box there definitely was a "rough around the edges" quality that has since faded (I noticed it sounded different right around the 15 hour mark and then a further improvement today at 25 hours) and I am also getting more robust bass response and just a more natural presentation with a more expansive soundscape with better focus at 25 hours versus the initial listening. The speakers are disappearing more than I remember at the start and the presentation and music has become the only thing in the room, though no idea if that's just my personal impression as I get used to the amp or a legitimate technical change in the sound. If it just keeps getting better... oh man, can't even imagine where it might have room to improve at this stage!

    The other thing is the transparency... the transparency and level of detail is ridiculous. A/Bing my vinyl rig versus the DAC with the input switch on the Decware and both sources synced for the same music at the same spot at the same volume, I noticed a very small discrepancy with my cartridge which I wasn't aware of. When I examined the cart (and I mean removing it from the rack, bringing it onto my work bench and examining with extra light sources with a magnifying glass and mirror as the issue was ever so slight), sure enough the cart somehow was ever so slightly out of alignment and the Decware had allowed me to hear that.

    All in all, ordered it August 2021 and it arrived March 2023, so a 19 month wait... let's be clear the wait is LONG and if you're impatient like me... excruciating at times...but it's proven to be worth every damn aggravating day of that wait! To anyone that's on the wait list, trust me, it's worth it and you will be rewarded in spades with splendid audio pleasure... the day the amp arrived and I got to unpack and listen for the first time is easily the most memorable day of my hifi audio journey so far...hell the anticipation may even make the first listen even more glorious! The one thing I will offer up as advice is to spend the waiting time looking at every other aspect of your system - these Decware amps reveal the weak link with absolute ease which I guess can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your system and objectives and goals for your system.. any small tweaks or upgrades you make to your system become exponentially obvious once you drop the Decware into the system! Tube rolling the 12AX7s I have in my phono preamplifier just inherited a completely new meaning with the Zen Triode as the amp behind them.. it's like trying to solve a puzzle in the dark with bright halogen lamp that floods the entire room versus a dim batteries almost dead flashlight.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2023
    gingerly, Shawn and Lonson like this.
  3. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    You're preaching to the choir! ;) I've been using Decware amps since 1997 or so and have three systems with Decware components. And waiting as patiently as I can for an SEWE300B amp.
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  4. JasperYYJ

    JasperYYJ Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    Oh no doubt Lon - you're a legend over in the Decware forum! As knowledgeable and well versed as they come on Decware gear!

    I'm sure the waiting patiently part may become harder too as soon as Steve Guttenberg's review of of the Decware 300B drops shortly :)
     
    Trag likes this.
  5. brubacca

    brubacca Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Just as long as people realize that there are 2093 people on that Decware Amp list as of right now. They cleared 675 lines off of that list from Feb 2022 to Feb 2023.

    It is a really long wait if you order now. That is about 3 years unless they increase production rates.
     
  6. Earthbound2

    Earthbound2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    Hey Lonson. I don’t get over to the Decware forums as much anymore. I was wondering if people have started posting amps and such up for sale right after purchasing due to the high demand. I’m sure it’s going to start and was wondering if it’s been done or discussed on the site.
     
  7. tubesandvinyl

    tubesandvinyl Forum Resident

    There’s always Decware amps for sale. Friend of mine bought 3 different Zens, and one Raechel, and another bought the Torri. I’ve opened them all and listened to them.

    Keep watching US audio mart and Canuck Audio Mart. They come up regularly.
     
  8. Earthbound2

    Earthbound2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    I was referring to quick flipping of new purchase for a higher price then Decware is selling them for.
     
  9. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    No, I have not seen that happening. I've seen a few persons selling rather new ones for nearly new prices or hoping to. It hasn't become commonplace yet to do that, most persons seem to keep them when they get them.
     
    Earthbound2 likes this.
  10. tubesandvinyl

    tubesandvinyl Forum Resident

    I haven’t seen that either. Thankfully, it’s not like RSD or ERC records where the original buyer has no intention of listening to the item, and only buys to profit.
     
  11. Earthbound2

    Earthbound2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    I had 3 spots and recently cancelled 2. I thought about just buying amps and selling them but thought better of it. Using the one for the csp3. Look forward to having a push pull el34, 300b and a headphone amp. Not sure which yet, the csp3 or Taboo.
     
    Lonson likes this.
  12. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    I've been at it for over 25 years with Decware and now I have both CSP3 and Taboo for headphones. Both are great. If you have easy to drive headphones th CSP3 may be the best. . . just killer sound. The Taboo has killer sound too, and the power needed for harder to drive headphones.

    I've got SE84UFO3 monoblocks with 25th Anniversary mods and a ZTPRE, ZBIT and a ZROCK2 with 25th Anniversary mods in my main system, and later this year I hope to have an SEWE300B.
     
  13. Earthbound2

    Earthbound2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    Will this be your first 300b amp in your system Lon?
     
  14. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    Yes! I have heard 300B twice, both were in someone else's system, and both were Cary integrated amps. I liked the first one I heard, it was at a college fellow student of my Dad's who he was catching up with, and was with horn speakers and a great turntable. Researching SET after that led me to Decware.
     
    Earthbound2 likes this.
  15. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Doing this would negate the lifetime warranty for the purchaser. It can be transferred by Decware. If... The new purchaser returns the smp to Decware and pays a fee to have it bench tested. Then the owner must purchase a complete new set of tubes. Plus, there is shipping in and out.

    It's not a bad deal, getting a lifetime warranty on a used amp but it does add considerably cost to a brand new amp.
     
  16. Earthbound2

    Earthbound2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    Thanks for the reply. I’m familiar with their policies but was interested if or how desperate people down the list are getting that’s all. Like I said earlier, I gave up 2 spots. All I can think of is my mom saying, I’m so disappointed in you doing that Earthbound. It’s not an honest way to make money!!
    I do look forward to a headphone amp from Decware. Looking at the Audeze lcd-2’s for my first pair. At half the price of the 3’s, the performance based on reviews, is pretty comparable.
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  17. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    What I'm more curious about is how many units will be appearing on the used market a year or two from now?

    If you are using a single amp in stereo, that is not a lot of power. My Mini-Torii is 3.9 WPC. That is not a lot of power either. But I have 100 dB sensitive Altec's.

    To the best of my audio knowledge, not a lot of audio people (as a percentage) have really high sensitive speakers.

    Take that and the typical desire to move on and I think there is going to be a few units available.
     
    Earthbound2 likes this.
  18. Earthbound2

    Earthbound2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    Good point. I saw a list of which class amps people used and was surprised to see Class A at just less than 10%. I think you’re right that people my not realize the required components and choose to sell. Good for us I guess!
     
  19. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I doubt if Class A owners are even close to 10% of the audio community, like on our forum?
     
  20. Earthbound2

    Earthbound2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    I’d not remember exactly but it was an audio review site. So, I’m sure including regular “normal” music listeners, it’s far less. I was reading an article on Class D and the pros and cons of each class. Maybe the site Terry Landon writes for.
     
  21. gingerly

    gingerly Change Returns Success

    If you didn't believe that things like better components, better cables, better DAC's could make any real difference The Zen Triode will change your mind. Simple changes to the system are obvious. Currently running my system with a full set of Nordost Odin power chords/interconnects/speaker wire on loan, and the differences are RIDICULOUS with this $1500ish amp. The little Zen is in NO WAY embarrassed in this company. I don't know what I'll do when I have to give them back.
     
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  22. riknbkr330

    riknbkr330 Senior Member

    Gingerly, I think you're the one that mentioned Decware and opened my eyes to the brand. I do thank you, if that was the case, as I'm blown away with my 2014 "Rachael"...listening to it right now, with XTC on the Rega TT, and looking at the torrential rain coming down. Pure bliss.
     
    gingerly likes this.
  23. Earthbound2

    Earthbound2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    Look forward to hearing your impressions. It’s certainly a treat. I like hearing what others feel are their ideas about what they like most and perhaps what’s not so great. Hurry up list!
     
    Lonson likes this.
  24. johnt23

    johnt23 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oregon
    When people emphasize the need to match the Zen with efficient speakers, I really think they are understating things. I don't like to listen at deafening levels, but with my 96db speakers, the Zen wasn't enough juice for me. At a nice, room filling volume, the Zen would just be on the brink of starting to clip and started to lose some grip over the sound. Bass suffered the most. If it turned it down just slightly, it would go back to its happy zone, however, I did not want to live with that compromise of needing to lower the volume. I also found myself relegated to small scale jazz and folk. I like a lot of that stuff, but sometimes, I want to rock out a little.
    Then, I experimented with an old Classe amp, 100w/channel. Originally retailed for 3K which is about 10K in today's dollars, so not a fair fight. I purchased it used for 1k, which is very approximately the price of a new Zen. Night and day difference. It had most of the qualities of the Zen, but so much more bass, grip, and the ability to play at loud levels without breaking a sweat.
    So, I learned that the Zen is a great amp at its asking price with tons of caveats. MUST have an ultra-high efficiency speaker. 96db wasn't enough for me. Maybe a 100db Altec or Cornwall would satisfy me more. I still have the Zen and might try those speakers out. For me, 96db was not efficient enough for the Zen.
     
  25. Trag

    Trag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montana
    Did you run a pre?
     
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