Defend the Indefensible: "Sometime in New York City"

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Driver 8, Jul 15, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. helter

    helter Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    I can’t !
     
    DK Pete likes this.
  2. Thievius

    Thievius Blue Oyster Cult-ist

    Location:
    Syracuse, NY
    Wow, I owned this CD a long time ago. Probably not long before the creation of this thread. I wasn't heavily into it myself, as I remember eventually selling it, but I certainly never hated it. I remember Instant Karma being a highlight.
     
  3. DK Pete

    DK Pete Forum Resident

    Location:
    Levittown. NY
    Very nicely balanced viewpoint. Can't argue with any of it, even as a massive, obsessive Beatle fan. He had two solid albums as solid can be, an okay one two albums later, then a "better-than-ok" one that followed. Sandwiched inbetween is the nadir of STINYC. What's making me rank it so low is that even the "Lennon charisma" doesn't really save this album, as a whole, for me. I would have more than likely bought POB and Imagine regardless of who did them. Mind Games and Walls and Bridges have numerous peaks and valleys but within overall "Lennon context" they're both highly enjoyable albums. Unfortunately, I can't truthfully say that about this album.
     
    showtaper, Man at C&A and Buddybud like this.
  4. DK Pete

    DK Pete Forum Resident

    Location:
    Levittown. NY
    IK wasn't on this-or any other album. Unless you're thinking of the Shaved Fish compilation.
     
    Trader Joe likes this.
  5. Dovetail7

    Dovetail7 Pragmatic Purist

    Arguably the nadir of the simpleminded sloganeering that began with "Give Peace A Chance"
     
    Trader Joe and DK Pete like this.
  6. DK Pete

    DK Pete Forum Resident

    Location:
    Levittown. NY
    ..but somehow, GPAC worked. Maybe because it was the very first time John delved into "the political" or maybe the vibe of the whole thing as an event or, most simply, it was just a better, catchier tune. It also sounded more natural. With STINYC (and the Power To The People single for that matter), John sounded like he was trying too hard to consciously appease/support every cause that was given a problem by the "establishment".
     
    Trader Joe likes this.
  7. Juan Hitwonder

    Juan Hitwonder Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC
    There are a lot of solo Beatle albums that only have 2 or 3 or 4 good songs... if that.

    People hate this because of the Yoko and the smashmouth politics and too many chants as choruses. And because they had to pay extra for the Mummy's Hand live crap.
     
  8. Juan Hitwonder

    Juan Hitwonder Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC
     
    Man at C&A, Diamond Dog and steviej like this.
  9. Tomek

    Tomek Senior Member

    Location:
    Krakow, Poland
    Imagine John Lennon & Yoko Ono with no possesions
    I wonder if you can
    No need for next best-ofs or endless re-issues
    A brotherhood of fans
     
    Trader Joe likes this.
  10. AKA-Chuck G

    AKA-Chuck G Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington NC
  11. MartyGabriel

    MartyGabriel Jaded Realist.

    Location:
    USA
    It's fine. Yes they could have done better, but it's not as terrible as some would have you believe. I can find much to like about it and I applaud it being rather leftfield.

    I find Yoko's songs better than John's and I really like that weird beat to "Sisters O Sisters" and that wonderful melody to "Born in a Prison." I also like all the points on the album where the intonation is off -- how the sax player consistently plays a little sharp.

    For me "We're All Water" is a singalong tune, and there's that weird beat again. I'm mixed, so it does have a very special resonance with me for that too. I would name it my favourite traditional song (as in it's got verses and a chorus) from Yoko.

    As for the lyrics, to me the rest of it's no different than all that "go vegetarian and recycle" stuff in the early 90's or all the "Free Tibet" stuff at the end of the 90's. I had no opinion on those being largely ignorant and wrapped up in what I was doing at the time to care. So, I don't have an opinion on the lyrics here although WITNOTW seems a little over the top initially, but maybe that was the intent. I'm not inclined at all to ever utter or even think the controversial word myself, but it comes over several free jazz records that are favourites, it's in raps on several favourite mixtapes, and it sounds to my ears like the word for "black" in Spanish as if spoken by someone with a deep Texas or Louisiana drawl, so I find it easy to get past it. Also my having spent my teenage years on the Louisiana/Texas border near Houston where it helps if you can speak French, Spanish and English has something to do with it. Since I can, I've always thought of controversial words as the sort of thing where it's how you relate. If you don't speak French, I can say them in French all day long and you'd not be the wiser.

    I noticed no one seems to care if that word is in DK's "Holiday in Cambodia" or that James Chance tune whose title escapes me at the moment. So to me it's a non-issue.

    Yoko in general to me sounds like typical Eastern pop music which I like and listen to. A couple of times she's been on the jukebox and it didn't register it was her until I looked because I thought it were another Eastern pop singer. To me she's the Eastern pop singer who mimics animals and free jazz saxophones. All the Yoko hatred I see here tells me more about the hater, because I think okay, you didn't care at all when Pharoah Sanders made that sound for 1/3 of a 30 minute track.

    As for the live album, I wish I could hear the full Lyceum set. They played for nearly an hour -- 10 minutes of "Cold Turkey", and 40 minutes or so of "Don't Worry Kyoko." It flies by to me and "Don't Worry Kyoko" is like having a live version of "Mind Train", which I really like. It sounds more like they're playing that song to me.

    The Zappa side was what I got it for, and it's funny, just the Mothers having fun with John and Yoko. I did unlock "Au" by learning Yoko's bit, and it sounds to me quite like a skronk sax solo from John Gilmore or Marshall Allen -- not foreign or unpleasant at all. Maybe I just have those sorts of ears. I did also notice that 1/3 of it is setting up the feedback, not unlike the Mothers track "Weasels Ripped My Flesh", 1/3 is Yoko's skronk vocal, and 1/3 of it is the audience reaction, so consequently it also seems very short.

    Overall, it's pleasant enough, of its time, and while I'm not super enriched for knowing it, it doesn't put me off at all and I don't think of it as a bad album, just an average album.
     
  12. Jmac1979

    Jmac1979 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    Was "Driver 8" Prince in disguise? He last showed up around here on April 21, 2016.... hmm....
     
  13. Thievius

    Thievius Blue Oyster Cult-ist

    Location:
    Syracuse, NY
    Different album I guess..? :shrug: For some reason I was confusing this with this live album. My bad.

    Live in New York City (John Lennon album) - Wikipedia
     
    Trader Joe and DK Pete like this.
  14. DK Pete

    DK Pete Forum Resident

    Location:
    Levittown. NY
  15. I like the packaging.
     
    DK Pete likes this.
  16. Give Peace A Chance works. It’s simple, direct. STINYC (or as I refer to it STINCY) fails because it IS empty sloganeering (well except for NYC which reminds me a bit of Lou Reed for some reason, the single and Luck of the Irish). Peace is pretty straight forward and eschews cliched political sloganeering.
     
    DK Pete likes this.
  17. Trader Joe

    Trader Joe Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Hampshire
    I simply cannot. This album is true indefensible.
     
    ohnothimagen likes this.
  18. 2141

    2141 Forum Resident

    Your taste and opinions are very similar to mine. In fact this album pretty much killed my almost automatic desire to buy anything a solo Beatle released. Of course I was and still am a big Beatles fan, but after this one it became clear to me they were all just mere mortals. :agree:
     
    DK Pete likes this.
  19. DK Pete

    DK Pete Forum Resident

    Location:
    Levittown. NY
    I concur.
     
    2141 likes this.
  20. MartyGabriel

    MartyGabriel Jaded Realist.

    Location:
    USA
    The weird thing about the Flo & Eddie Mothers was that most of their existence they were not really represented on record. They started in April of 1970 but Chunga's Revenge did not come out until around Halloween as I recall. It was August 1971 before Fillmore East came out, 200 Motels Soundtrack for October (my birthday is in October and it was a birthday present), then the band ended in December 1971 (we all know that story). Just Another Band From LA didn't come out until March or April 1972. It's easy to tell which year a given tape is from. In 1970 the Groupie Opera opened and closed with "What Will This Evening Bring Me This Morning" and in 1971 it was like it is on Fillmore East. The first tour where the setlist pushed the album was the small band with Andre Lewis which pushed Zoot Allures. Before that you knew when you went to see the Mothers you weren't going to know at least 75% of the concert and they didn't routinely play old tunes.
     
  21. wildstar

    wildstar Senior Member

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    The album was dated BEFORE it got released. John Sinclair was released from prison several months before the album came out.

    What's this nonsense about Yoko not reissuing the album. You are the second person I've noticed (during just a quick scan over this thread) to make that claim. This album was included in the restored original mix/remastered Lennon Signature Box of all of his proper/non-experimental/non-posthumous/non-compilation/non-fully live albums in 2010.

    It was also reissued in remixed form (with bonus tracks) in the 2000s, just like every other one of his proper/non-experimental/non-posthumous/non-compilation/non-fully live albums. However unlike those other albums she omitted some tracks to fit it all on one CD (and probably also to not have to deal with Gail about the fraudulent songwriting credits on side 4 of the original album as technically the remixed album constituted a "new compilation" which would likely have required new clearances). It dropped all but 'Well' (a song with undisputed writing credits as its a cover) from the Zappa side of the album, and added both sides of the 'Happy Xmas' single.

    BTW I've always wondered if it became a double album simply because EMI (may have) refused to accept a single album of half-Yoko either at all and/or as counting towards the fulfillment of his recording contract (since EMI had never signed her - nor wanted to sign her - to their label). The live album ups the total Lennon quotient to about one full album's worth of "Lennon-centric" material over the two albums, thus giving EMI the equivalent of one full new Lennon solo album.

    As for the OP question about defending this album - well I like (don't love) "New York City" and "Well" is pretty good - as long as I remember to constantly repeat the mantra in my mind while listening to it "That isn't Yoko's annoying screeching I'm hearing - it's a saxophone...That isn't Yoko's annoying screeching I'm hearing - it's a saxophone...That isn't Yoko's annoying screeching I'm hearing - it's a saxophone..."

    EDIT: Holy crap! I just noticed this thread is about 15 and a half years old (and has been dormant for nearly as long). The remixed album that I mentioned came out that same year, but perhaps later in the year, and the Signature box was still a half decade away from being released at the time this thread started - WOW!
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2021
  22. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!"

    Location:
    Canada
    Some Time In New Yuck City..."career suicide" in a double album package:laugh: I admit I bought the thing back in the day out of morbid curiosity- I was already aware of STINCY (love that, @wayneklein ) and it's bad reputation; I actually never thought I'd ever stumble across a copy, so I bought it ($12- I think I overpaid...) and listened to the entire thing once. An hour and a half I'll never get back, thirty two years later:laugh: I thought Lennon's material was crap, Yoko had the better songs, and the live second disc kicked the studio disc's ass all over the map...side four was my intro to Zappa, actually. My old band did appropriate "Well (Baby Please Don't Go)" though, so I suppose the damn record wasn't a total loss...
     
  23. Mr-Beagle

    Mr-Beagle Ah, but the song carries on, so holy

    Location:
    Kent
    I thought Journey Through The Past was bad but I might have to reconsider.
     
  24. Cledwyn

    Cledwyn Forum Resident

    Location:
    North Wales
    Me too - the intro is particularly epic! It is also one of the few Beatles-related Spector productions I actually like.

    I also greatly enjoy Born In A Prison and quite like Sisters O Sisters and New York City. Individually, I find all of the studio tracks are tolerable, except for maybe We're All Water, which is just too long. Put them all together, however, and it's not something I ever listen to - except perhaps when a thread about the album pops up on the forum. :)
     
  25. Orthogonian Blues

    Orthogonian Blues A man with a fork in a world full of soup.

    Location:
    London, UK
    Attica State...

    The lines 'we're all mates with Attica State' and 'free the prisoners, jail the judges' are now chillingly ironic, given that Attica State prison was home to a certain notorious inmate for over 30 years...
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine