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Degritter Users

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by WntrMute2, Jun 30, 2019.

  1. AArchie

    AArchie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    I'm systematically cleaning my collection so no need to keep track randomly. I Degas before the cleaner as suggested and after the first half to full revolution there is no foam. I have no idea why Degassing should be done before cleaner is added. How does degassing work anyway? Low power ultrasonics?

    I have to admit, now that the initial glow has faded, cleaning 1500 LPs is a slog! lol
     
    displayname likes this.
  2. terzinator

    terzinator boots lost in transit

    Location:
    Minnesota
    Getting close to finishing first 30 records, so I'll change the water shortly and do the de-gas. I'll let you know. (Novelty not fading yet! I'm going to try to get through, say, 10 a day on average. Some days more, some less. I only have about 850 albums, so if I'm done by spring, I'll be happy.)

    Decided to just go with little orange stickers in the corner of the jacket to keep track of degritter'd albums. It's an analog medium that needs an analog solution. No need to bring a database into it amiright?

    Noticing that during the occasional cleaning, the record revolves with foam on the surface. Once the drying starts, that foam instantly goes away. Not every cleaning tho. Anyone seeing that? (Possible there's a mention in one of the 20 previous pages, but searching for "foam" I find lots of posts about the foam filters.)
     
    Ninjur likes this.
  3. MartyTem

    MartyTem Forum Resident

    Andrea_Bellucci likes this.
  4. terzinator

    terzinator boots lost in transit

    Location:
    Minnesota
  5. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Is it possible that some albums have existing detergent residue that is being wetted, and foams? If you wash the same album a 2nd time, I wonder if it would foam again.
     
    displayname likes this.
  6. terzinator

    terzinator boots lost in transit

    Location:
    Minnesota
    that might be, although it happened with both new and old albums alike. I wonder if it's happening because of the temp of the water. Seemed to happen after a stretch of cleaning several albums, when the water was probably much warmer. We'll see.

    just did the de-gas function this morning.

    Fill with new water, replace tank, select de-gas, and 2:15 later it's done. (No-brainer.)

    Add 1.5ml of new cleaning fluid and good to go.
     
  7. AArchie

    AArchie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    I get foam for the first 1/2 to full turn but then it goes away for the rest of the cycle. It could be from agitation when the water goes through the pumps?
     
    displayname likes this.
  8. pacvr

    pacvr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland
    The foam is likely coming from a combination of the cleaner and the pump. All water soluble surfactants will foam and you may be surprised to just how little is required. Try this simple experiment - add one drop of the Degritter Record Cleaning Solution to about 1-pt or 1-liter of just tap water. Cap and shake vigorously for a few seconds - how much foam; I suspect quite a bit. So, if vigorously agitated - it can foam.

    One of the reasons Degritter says to degas is to get the air out of water that along with interfering with the ultrasonics can cause the solution to foam. Another issue 'appears' to be how they plumbed the pump/filter. From their site Record cleaning machine that is easy to use - Degritter I notice that the filter is at the pump suction. This is good for protecting the pump, but because of the filter pressure drop which can peak on start-up and then drop down may cause the pump to cavitate for a while; and if it cavitates that 'vigorous' agitation will cause the solution to foam.

    But, the foam is mostly just air - so it blows off very quickly. Is a small amount of residue left behind - yes. Is it enough to affect record playback, so long as you do not over add cleaner - very unlikely.

    If say a molecular mono-layer of surfactant was left behind - the film thickness would be about 9-Angstroms (0.0009 microns) - even if a 10 mono-layer thickness was left behind = 0.009 microns; it may be of scientific interest - but for us it means nothing. The record when it is exposed to any residential environment will have a very thin film just from the moisture and whatever else is in the environment. This natural film is why static does not develop at higher humidity, and why it forms at lower humidity. The moisture that is in the air has ionic (salt) impurities and if enough condenses on the surface it makes the surface sufficiently conductive - ergo no static. Not enough - low humidity - and you can get static.

    If you read back on this post, you will see where some people are using Tergikleen Amazon.com: Clean Vintage Vinyl Records Like A Professional Archivist With TergiKleen™ Tergitol-based Fluid Concentrate: Electronics. Tergikleen is a blend of Tergitol 15-S-3 and 15-S-9 non-ionic surfactants. The 15-S-3 is not water soluble; it is an oil and it is also a defoaming agent so the Tergikleen does not foam. For those that use Tergikleen and do not rinse, how much cleaner oily residue is left behind - it 'could' be significant.
     
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  9. AArchie

    AArchie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    I have a DS Audio ST-50 Stylus Cleaner which is a sticky polymer pad that you just cue the stylus into. After a side of a newly cleaned LP, I can get a white dot left behind. I don't know what or where this is or coming from but if it's cleaner residue it might be of interest. It's not dust.
     
    Andrea_Bellucci likes this.
  10. terzinator

    terzinator boots lost in transit

    Location:
    Minnesota
    yeah i saw the Tergikleen reference...

    I do have a big bottle of Spin-Clean fluid. (Supposedly uses a "flocculant" to precipitate out particles removed, but not sure that would be good for the degritter. I'm cool using the supplied degritter fluid.
     
  11. pacvr

    pacvr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland
    Try this simple experiment - collect a small sample of the Degritter diluted cleaning solution from the tank and put a 1-2 drops on a hard/clean (wipe clean with alcohol) surface such as glass or metal and allow the drop to dry - what is left. If a whitish film is there - then you know for sure where the stylus residue comes from. Also, keep in mind the Degritter fluid filter is at best 100 pores/inch. So each pore is about 0.01" = about 250 microns. This is not a very fine filter, so, what you are seeing may be very very fine lint-type particles that are not filtered but are on the record and picked up by the stylus on 1st play.
     
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  12. pacvr

    pacvr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland
    I would not use the Spin-Clean fluid in the Degritter. If the pump filter was to foul/clog, you could probably burn out that pump pretty quick.
     
  13. AArchie

    AArchie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    I doubt I'd see something from a couple drops. The filter doesn't seem to be collecting much dirt. By that I mean there doesn't seem to be much coming off of the LPs. I might pull some liquid from the tank and look at it under a microscope to see what's be floating around. I recently changed the water so I'll wait until I've cleaned more LPs with it. The sound is great. It could be that this stylus cleaner (which is new for me) is simply doing a really good job.
     
  14. r.Din

    r.Din Seeker of Truth

    Location:
    UK
    Sticker on front of jacket contains Discogs info. Sticker on rear contains cleaning info.
     
  15. robertawillisjr

    robertawillisjr Music Lover

    Location:
    Hampton, VA
    The folks at Spin-Clean indicated that it wasn't a good idea to use their fluid in ultrasonic cleaning machines. No reason why but a definite DON'T DO IT.
     
  16. pacvr

    pacvr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland
    Most of the non-ionic surfactants used in record cleaning formulations in 100% concentrated form are liquids - they will feel like a thin oil. But, many of the ionic surfactants (anionic/cationic) are solids - powders/flakes in their concentrated form; and their color is often white or a pale yellow. They are soluble in water, but, depending on what the Degritter composition is, when the solution dries (water portion evaporated), the cleaning agents (and of course any debris from the record and/or the tank itself) will be left behind. Normally, in industry a much larger sample - 100 ml min, would be used for actual measurement/analysis of non-volatile residue (NVR). But, this is just a quick go-no-go, is there something there that is obvious. If you have a UV light, inspecting the residue with a UV light can often highlight lint/particles. So, a simple dried residue test may be of value.
     
    Andrea_Bellucci likes this.
  17. AArchie

    AArchie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    I tried a drop under a microscope but couldn't see anything. I am thinking it's a combination of all the factors you've mentioned. I've been pushing the number of cleaning cycles before I change fluid and I think that's a mistake. Distilled water doesn't cost enough to feel like I have to conserve it. I'm going back to the 30 (ish) cycles recommended in the manual. As you point out, the filter is only removing what it can remove and certainly not fully dissolved substances like cleaning solution and certain contaminants.

    No one else seems to be reporting this? I have a Shibata stylus profile if that makes any difference.
     
  18. GeraldB

    GeraldB Forum Resident

    I added a custom field for cleaning info. I think you can then sort on that field and would be able to see items with no value (thus, not Degritter-ed).

    I'm shocked that others are suggesting stickers on the jacket (never seen one that didn't at least leave a wrinkle, if left on for a while), but one on the outer sleeve (as long as you don't mix up which album they belong to!) or a sticker inside the jacket would be a nice, simple solution. I might try this myself!
     
  19. terzinator

    terzinator boots lost in transit

    Location:
    Minnesota
    I'm using the little 1/4" round Avery colored dots. They're pretty small. Not too concerned that it will decrease value of the records. (Not in it for the investment.)

    Thought about putting the dots on the plastic outer sleeve, but I think they might fall off as records are taken out and put back.

    Started with a discogs database entry, but I abandoned it because browsing through the shelf, I'd like at a glance to know if it's been cleaned with the degritter.
     
  20. AArchie

    AArchie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    After an initial cleaning, what are you guys doing subsequently as you play the cleaned LPs? So far I've just used a carbon dust brush.
     
  21. terzinator

    terzinator boots lost in transit

    Location:
    Minnesota
    Haven't had it long enough to need to brush the record. (For sure I haven't played any albums more than once after cleaning.)

    Debating this. I think if I saw visual dust on it, I might brush it off. Otherwise, ahdunno. Onzow the stylus, maybe. (That clear tacky-bubble-rubbery stylus cleaner.)
     
  22. AArchie

    AArchie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    That's what the DS Audio ST-50 Stylus Cleaner that I use seems to be. Works really well but way too expensive!
     
  23. jboersma

    jboersma Tower of Power

  24. Drew769

    Drew769 Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    I’m still on the fence about this machine. Any further insights or advice on purchasing it? Is it all you hoped it would be?
     
  25. MattHooper

    MattHooper Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    I use the ST-50 cleaner too but I don't necessarily find it "way too expensive." It fills a particular niche so it's going to cost more. I have a very nice looking turntable set up and frankly I don't like cleaning crap sitting around the turntable. The ST-50 is both ergonomically and aesthetically just what I need. The flat form factor makes it so easy to use safely with my stylus, and the case is beautifully finished so, sitting beside the turntable for easy use, it keeps the classy look.

    Some people value aesthetics too, and usually that costs more. I wouldn't buy another stylus cleaner that I know of, myself.
     

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