Did you try to clean any records that were still noisy through other methods with Degritter? Any improvement? Also, did you notice a difference in sound quality after cleaning? There has been a report in audiogon that claims that records seemed “to lose a little bit of life/air/leading edge after a wash.” Degritter brand ultrasonic record cleaner | Audiogon Discussion Forum This is is something that I have also experienced with other ultrasonic systems but most users do not seem to notice.
Will delve in deeper, but short version is that it's been excellent, though no miracle worker. The operation has been flawless, yet I've been to date just doing things in tandem with my Okki. I've also recorded before/after at 24/96 just to look for micro differences/some pop removal, but it's hard to nail down all the variables, including whether a second clean did the trick or the new regimen. I humbly suggest being very skeptical about that "loss" experienced above, as it's obviously subject to so much in way of psychosomatic sway. That said, I can definitively sau it's not worse than regular vacuum cleaner, the test is to see if it's better, and how.
I used it (for the first time) today. It took five minutes to set up. The manual is spot on and the unit’s operation was flawless. I will finish cleaning the first batch tomorrow and will then listen to the results. No it won’t be pre and post cleaning listening except for two brand new LPs. The other LPs are 50s and 70s era LPs. I was expecting a few new Blue Note records but our reliable USPS seems to have lost the package. The only anomaly is that the unit’s update version in higher than the one posted on Degritter’s web site
...break a leg. I'm probably about 100 records in, and have yet to add any of the detergent liquid. I'm seeing how it behaves as water only first, as part of my testing. I've been attenuating between cleaning levels, but there's something just great about throwing a record in when new and just hitting play and walking away. I removed and cleaned the filter, and it seems to clean up pretty well. I also washed out the water reservoir - the metal lift handle and the grooves inside make it a challenge to scrub, but there was some mild black residue that accumulates and gets through the filter. I was doing that after about every 50 records, may increase. The water def heats up after three or four, even in chilly Canada. The whole automated system takes care of that, but I found that I had been leaving the cover on the water that exacerbates that. Uncover for batch cleaning for sure. On a related note I left the thing for over a week and there was almost no evaporation, meaning you really can have it setup and ready to go when you need.
I don't think this thread will benefit from me replying to your statement, so I'll stay away. It would divert attention away from the purpose of this thread. It would just be nice if the thread didn't turn into a youtube link list for your channel.
New Degritter firmware: Version 2.1.9v8 22/12/2019 Change log – Changed direction of record revolution during washing cycles On very rare cases the revolving wet record can lift up sufficient amount of water for a few water droplets to flow down on the record label. The change of record revolution direction eliminates this possibility as the wet part of the record will now rise through a low powered drying air. This air will blow off larger droplets. – Fixed water splurging when drying without tank Fixed small amount of water pumping from the tank dock when drying record without tank.
...did my first FW upgrade and it was suspiciously quick I'm so used to FW updates taking forever that when it said to eject the card I had assumed it had failed. Checked info, and as expected it's at 2.1.9v8. The cleaning now go in the opposite direction, as above. I hadn't noticed issues with labels getting wet on low setting, but I'm also used to the Okki where more than occasionally the label would be made slightly wet (without damage, of course). I've decided instead of using just distilled to add in the cleaning fluid, just to see if it makes much of a difference. Very initial findings show that, as expected, this isn't going to magically make problem records shine, but just in terms of peace of mind and ease of use it's stellar. One thing you can do if in a bit of a marathon (ie., a box set) is to start the filling process as you are sleeving the other record, saving a bit of time going back and forth. It'd be interesting if there was a mode where you could, say, clean a few in a row - you would have to worry about filtration, of course, but that'd save the time of draining and re-filling between every record. I'm sure smarter people can let me know what that's a non-starter.
Figured this would be of use - here's a relatively rare record (the LAST FIVE YEARS soundtrack) that was a 1000 copy pressing. I cleaned it upon arrival about 6 months ago with my Okki, but there always some surface noise especially evident at the opening of the record. I put it in the Degritter with the cleaning fluid added, latest FW and did a long clean cycle. I leave it to you to decide whether the difference is major. l5y-post-wash l5y-pre-wash
Thanks. Playback at least through my firefox browser seems to have tons of digital compression effects, so hard to tell. But the Degritter version seems to be cleaner and more tonally pure.
Oh, do NOT listen via the player, neglected to mention if there's a better sharing site happy to use. Download the files, they're 24/96 FLAC.
...yeah, exactly...we have the option of drying only, maybe there's a benefit of clean only (to then air dry on a rack or whatever).
For those interested in updates, the machine has been flawless so far in doing what it's supposed to - still no miracle worker, of course, but the ease of use of just plopping in a record, even from sealed, and doing a quick cycle is a substantial time saver alone over the Okki. After Boxing day madness it's been great to use. I can provide more before/after audio if anyone is actually interested while I'm working on my piece, figured the insights from those open to such things will be useful to all of us. Please remember above to actually download the Flacs - smarter members here than me should be able to do all kinds of fancy spectral analysis to see what the differences, if any, are in those two files (again, one cleaned already with Okki a few months back and stored in Mofi sleeves, then one cleaned with the Degritter). At this point I'm focussed on the jump from a $600 to a $3000 cleaner, more than the (obvious) fact that no clean vs Degritter is of course a non-starter.
I'm glad to hear the positive reports on the Degritter. I've owned the Audio Desk, the KL and still use the latter as well as a Monks Omni (a modern Keith Monks point nozzle vacuum RCM) and figured when the KL croaked, I'd go with an Elma DIY. A friend, who has also owned all these commercial machines, is in love with his. It's obviously expensive but may have checked all the right boxes (frequency, filtration, easily switchable bath, drying function plus small form factor). My first experience with ultrasonic was a WOW and I now consider it an essential part of my cleaning regime. I have not had any hands-on with the Degritter, though.
ok, for giggles, here are two more files - labelled red and blue. It's a first pressing U.S. of Barry McGuire's "Eve of Destruction" - lots of split stereo, old school recording, etc. The record itself looked pretty filthy, and rather than doing my usual two-step with the Okki I did a "heavy" clean using the degritter liquid. Before/after visually was dramatic, getting rid of 50+ years of dust and crap, but I'll leave it to you if the cleaning did much to the audio itself. Have a listen - one is labelled "red", one "blu". Lemme know which is which below. Remember to actually download the FLACS (24/96), as the player with the links below automatically truncates audio quality (if there's a better form to upload clips like this lemme know...) EoD-RED EoD-BLUE
Hi Bill, The Degritter retails at around €2,500 on this side of the pond. I saw it in action at Munich last May and none other than Michael Fremer dropped by as I was talking with Degritter, actually to the man who has posted here. We all had a nice chat about ultrasonic cleaning as it applies to vinyl records. It looks like a pretty well thought out unit but I suppose the retro styling is a matter of personal taste. It is significantly less expensive than the Klaudio so that has to be good in the sense that it will make this type of record cleaning more widely accessible. If I were in the market for a new unit, I would have a serious look at this one. In the meantime I will ‘plough on’ with my Klaudio which, knock on wood, continues to work very well. Regular cleaning of the wire mesh filter I have found, is essential, for reliable performance. Even with already wet cleaned vinyl, it is prone to collecting little pieces of lint and airborne dust from cleaned vinyl which builds up over time. A thorough cleaning with a soft tooth brush will clear out the lint from the wire mesh in between refills. I noticed that the Klaudio costs the equivalent of €7k from U.K. sources. Is it any wonder that Klaudio has stopped production given the very viable and more affordable alternatives from Degritter and even Kirmuss???
It simply didn't clean well enough. Yes, the surface looks nice and shiny, but still my records were plagued with groove noise/crackle. On the worst of those albums I'd then reclean using a goat hair brush to give the platter a really good manual scrub, which sometimes helped. The Degritter requires no such intervention - if the vinyl can be cleaned to silence, the Degritter will get you there with the first clean.
Ah, this happened to me too. There's a lot of expert golden ears in this forum ready to discuss how many angels can dance on the top of a cable or the night and day difference between power cords, then as soon as you ask for a blind test between needledrops everybody instantly disappear... Anyway, I just spent half an hour listening to the two files, switching from one to the other and I think it is a very close call. At first, on the speakers, I concentrated on the noise but there is very little difference between the two. Then I tried to listen to the music but no way I could tell which is which. So I went with earphones. In the end my impression is that the RED file is slightly more detailed and a bit cleaner, while the BLUE is a tad more opaque and congested. But I stress it again, the difference is difficult to be appreciated. In the end I vote for BLUE=before, RED=after, but I may well be totally wrong
Thanks @sharkshark for taking the time and posting these files. I agree with @Jimi Floyd, the noise levels of these two are VERY VERY similar. Based on what I am hearing through my computer speakers, it seems to me that Red has a LITTLE less noise than the Blue so I am guessing Red must be recorded after cleaning. In regards to what Degritter has to offer in terms of cleaning effectiveness, judging strictly by these samples, unfortunately I would have to say that I am not that impressed. I was expecting so much more.
Hey, not to dismiss the skepticism outright, but obviously I don't believe that is the argument to make. Frankly, the opposite is kind of true - the Degritter did a damn good job at getting rid of all the surface mess and def left the record looking super clean. The issue is expectation management - this is a 50+ year old record, and for so many of these the record just sounds like it does because of factors that =no= cleaner is going to magically reinvigorate. Pops, clicks, etc. aren't always things that can got rid of. It's a VG+ record once scrubbed, and the sound is great. More than that, a bunch of surface crap actually doesn't interfere nearly as much as (visually) I'll have more to say when I write it up, but I've realized something quite liberating about cleaning this way - a kind of calm from acceptance that you've done what you could. With the Okki there was always this sense that maybe I didnt' scrub right, or vacuum enough, or that if I just took it over to a local store that has a AudioDeske I'd be able to uncover the magic. Sometimes, it just is what it is. I've thoroughly enjoyed thusfar the operation of the unit, it's been flawless on that front. But it hasn't (as I had expected) made diamonds out of coal, metaphorically. Now, it's more like it can't make 24k Gold from 18k Gold, but you get the point... I'll leave it up a few more days before saying which is which - I applaud the two who posted their thoughts. Again, not meant to be a trick question, or to make people look bad, but simply to show, as clearly as possible, both the effects AND limitations of RCMs on these silly pieces of plastic that we do love so much. I realized I've been lax at updating the setup that's used in testing - that's a Benz Micro Z on an SME V on a MicroSeiki BL-51, into an Avid Pulsare II, and then XLR into a Zoom H6 at 24/96. I humbly suggest that's pretty good for 'round here, at least good enough for this test. I'm attaching a before/after pic of cleaning - again, I can keep running on 10min sequence just to see, but as a first test I found the results interesting.
I'm going to put up two more pairs of files just recorded - the first is a promo copy of Tracey Chapman's debut. It was cleaned when I got it on an AudioDeske, recorded after coming out of a Mofi sleeve, cleaned, and then recorded again. Two files are labelled orange and yellow. Again, this isn't to test your "golden ears", or some sort of trick about the machine or whatever. Just some data points, if anything to contribute to expectation management. Remember, to listen in 24/96 flac please click download rather than hearing in the built-in player. TC-Rev-yellow TC-Rev-orange
...and this is the 45rpm recording of Gabriel's SO, recorded right from sleeve (cleaned months ago on an Okki and stored in Mofi), and just now cleaned with the Degritter. I've let it all play out this time to the end because the song goes through so much dramatic subtle sonic development I thought it might be more valuable. Again, not just picking "audiophile" stuff here, but real world records we listen to. A bit of noise and schmutz at lead-in? Welp, that's just kind of how some records are pressed, and what we've come to live with. I could, of course, just listen to my SHM-SACD if I didn't want any of that nonsense. Thanks for those who've been helping out - this is very new for me, and I've long benefited from some of the amazing knowledge from those on this site. Appreciate those open minded that have helped in my exploration, it's sincerely appreciated. PG-DgU-green PG-DgU-gold
Whilst I haven't listened to the files above I remain very happy with my Degritter some 9 months in - whilst the sound is obviously very, very important to us all, the following factors are also very important to me given I'm working through a collection of around 5000 pieces of vinyl in total: Reliability - cleaned around 500 records so far with no hint of any problem Ease of use - put record in, press button, walk away, come back a few minutes later, job done - no manual intervention required Upgrades - wasn't my reason for buying, but the Degritter team have been continuously improving how this machine works and pushing these improvements out via firmware I do also think that I get slightly better sounding records over and above those I cleaned on my Loricraft PRC4 but then that is a great machine to start with. It's the convenience, speed (I think I can clean around 8 records per hour on the Degritter vs 5 or 6 on the Loricraft) and ease of use that is the real winner over that process. Obviously as both machines use a wet cleaning process then static becomes pretty much a thing of the past as well (in my part of the world anyway - not sure what it would be like in areas with lower humidity). I haven't used the Loricraft in 9 months now since I got the Degritter so probably time for me to sell that on.
