Degritter Users

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by WntrMute2, Jun 30, 2019.

  1. Tiamak

    Tiamak Member

    Location:
    Hamburg
    That's a lot of work and time spent on a meager yield.
    I was hoping that a unit like the Degritter could do a fair job on those records without all those extra efforts.
    That would at least justify some of the purchase costs.

    You sound like somebody who has already spent a lot of time in making experiences in that area. I suppose you cleaned a litte bit more than a couple of records up to date ;-)
    So, the rescue of "six or seven" wet played records with all those extra efforts would (for me) not justify investing all that money for a Degritter.

    I just try to add up benefits to justify spending that much money for a new record cleaner instaed of a $ 150 repair for my Okki.
    Walkaway cleaning: TOP - Yes I would surely like that!
    Reduced Noise: nice to have (but would I do that next to my TTs while listening to music anyway? - suppose not ...)
    Less antistatics: nice (but that did never bother me too much / in fact its not that bad with ON cleaned records)
    Better cleaning results out of the box? That's the question for me ...
    So having some 20 to 30 wet played patients rescued by just one ore two spins on an US machine would at least justify for about $500 + of the mony to invest. Otherwise I could invest in new old copies, or even be more creative with my my ON efforts.
    Would I use the Degritter before/after every listen - no!
    Would I clean every record? New or used? probably not
    Will an automated US unit overcome my laziness in doing more washing? maybe ... , and that might be a benefint for my cartridges

    Since being back to vinyl some 5 years ago and having my Okki for about 2 years, my collection counts about 4.000 LPs (no real duds or sins of my youth!) and so far I haven't cleaned more than 200 (?) records, and not all of the cleanigs have been very beneficial. If I would stick to that ratio with a Degritter, that would be a spent amount of about $15 per record. WAY too much!
    If I would end up cleaning 200 records per year and expect a 5 to 10 year lifespan (my Okki only lasted 2 years) that would bring it down to $1,50 to $3 per spin. Interesting..., but do I really have so much records that need that treatment? Hmmm, I'm still undecided. Spending $3 on a record that doesn't (really) need cleaning to bring down the costs for the ones that need is at least a doubtable approach
    It seems the "race" is still open for me ;-)
    A Degritter for $1000 - no brainer / for $1500 likely / more than$2500? are you CRAZY !?! (that's what my wife would say, if she knew about my thoughts. Okay, she would even call me that when spending $1000 for plate washer).

    Thanks
    T
     
  2. Squiggsy68

    Squiggsy68 Forum Resident

    It sounds like you've made your mind up based upon the criteria that you value - which is exactly the right approach.

    I work on the basis that the cartridge on my main deck is expensive enough to replace anyway, so anything that I do that extends that lifespan is worth it in the long term - hence I clean every record (new or or otherwise) before it goes near that turntable. So - given I currently have around 3,500 albums, another 1,000 or so albums in box sets plus around 500 12" / 7" singles then ultimately it comes down to a unit cost of way less than £1 per disc once I've worked my way though - even including amounts for outer sleeves, antistatic inners, distilled water and cleaning solution.

    Plus the records sound at least as good as they were when cleaned on my Loricraft, with far less manual involvement.

    Also - I had the money available after refunds from PPI mis-selling in the UK, which was a major factor in the calculation!

    If I had six or seven 'wet played' records that I was trying to rescue then I wouldn't be buying a Degritter solely for that purpose. Presumably you could replace those records with better copies far cheaper?

    I certainly don't clean before / after every listen! My end goal will be to have put everything though the Degritter once, and then if I need to revisit individual discs at a later date then I'll do so. I haven't had to so far.

    It made sense for me as a value decision based upon the criteria I had. It feels like you have a different set of criteria so you need to make the decision based on those.
     
    SME12A and Ontheone like this.
  3. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Then you can either live with useless LPs or engage in a hunt for good quality replacements or make repeated manual cleaning attempts. For now though, and if those six or seven LPs are important to you, they’re still unplayable or unenjoyable. I’m not sure your cost/benefit analysis works well here.

    I think the measure of value I use is directly related to the effectiveness of noise reduction that, in turn, provides a more direct emotional connection between myself and the music recorded on an LP. If a cost/benefit analysis ends up in a cleaning system purchase that leaves me with LPs that are still noisy enough to prevent full enjoyment of the music, that’s just not good enough, and the cost benefit analysis was incorrectly applied and ineffective in such a case.

    The number of LPs in someone’s collection is often irrelevant except when a significant number are noisy and require cleaning. In such a situation, a method that is thorough enough to produce excellent results in a reasonable amount of time is often the best choice. However, a person may also opt for a method that is thorough, but takes longer, and conduct the work incrementally over a period of months or years. At all times, I absolutely agree that the cost of acquisition of a cleaning system matters to most audiophiles. It just has to be a system that is proven to work reliably and consistently and that the audiophile will actually use.

    As I’ve pointed out, there is most often no need to live with noisy LPs or clicks & pops resulting from physical damage. Most popular cleaning systems in the market can work well when used correctly every time.

    In relation to that, another important factor to consider is that the delightfully elegant Parks Audio Puffin phono preamp/ADAC can now be updated with a beta firmware version that provides a very useful click & pop reducer called Magic. The guys from SweetVinyl make the superb SugarCube SC1 Mini (among other models) that is even more robust and effective. But such machines are not a panacea - thorough LP cleaning cannot be ignored because clean LPs last longer and play better for longer. An audiophile who, for example, relies solely on a Puffin or a Sugarcube will eventually end up with frequently played LPs that have become unlistenable because they have become worn/damaged to a degree that exceeds the capabilities of the click & pop machines.

    Audiophiles on a strict budget have to factor in the idea that the lower the budget, the more likely it is that they’ll have to be standing and working a fully or semi-manual cleaning system. That is an important factor that casual cost/benefit analyses often ignore.

    Justp as important, some LPs may inevitably exceed the capabilities of a chosen manual or semi-manual system, or more likely perhaps exceed the audiophile’s comfort zone. That’s when a good relationship with a trusted shop provides the audiophile with the option of bringing in some problem LPs for a couple of runs through a big VPI followed by a Degritter or Audio Desk.

    Of course, false economies generated by inappropriate cost/benefit analyses have in recent decades driven many audiophiles online to make purchases, a practice that by definition erases varying amounts of buy-local relationship building. Admittedly, that’s a whole other story.

    In my experience, taking a broad range of factors into account, and also considering how many LPs someone collects on average every month, a $4,000 Degritter is a far better buy than a $750 Kirmuss for people who acquire 10 or more second-hand LPs every month. Fewer LP acquisitions each month seem to dictate the use of a VPI or Okki Nokki or Spin Clean.

    Again as mentioned in my previous system comparison post, using a Spin Clean system for lots of LPs every month requires the forethought to also acquire a plastic (non-marring) drying rack and a second Spin Clean tank to aid in thorough rinsing and a large, non-marring plastic mat for drying with Spin Clean cloths. Relatively cheap, very cheerful, and when used correctly quite thorough. If you’ve got the time, repeated Spin Clean attempts with your wet-played LPs may eventually clean them thoroughly.
     
  4. Tiamak

    Tiamak Member

    Location:
    Hamburg
    Hi guys,

    don't get me wrong - my criteria are not so different from yours.
    Would I like to have all my records cleaned? YES!
    Would I like to have each one cleaned before putting it on a spin? yes, at least a lot of them
    Will I be able to do that? probably not :(
    This is where my reservation comes from.
    Cleaning while listening doesn't seem appropriate for me, so I have to do that in other time slots/other places (the kitchen approach).
    If I'd use the machine repeatedly for about 500 + records per year, I would surely buy one.
    It's a kind of psychological thing to pay a lot for something I don't make proper use of.
    It's not my laziness alone, but there is still too much work to do besides the time I can spent with music.

    Even the money would be there.
    For every record I listen to, I put $1 into a money box or 50 Cent per side.
    This added up already to a fair amount of bucks.
    It is my kind of pre-investment for replacing cartridges or TT repairs.
    My cartridges are still in good shape ... :righton:

    I wish there would be the option to have a Degritter for a couple of days at home to see how "we" would get along.
    But that seems to be wishful thinking.
    I would even be willing to spend some money on that test cycle. If I return the unit, the money is gone. If I keep it, it's part of the whole fee.
    Maybe it would be a good strategy for the Degritter guys to offer that option through their vendors.
    Would you buy a $3000 Amp or DAC or whatever without proper testing at home?
    Seems vinyl junkies are a bit let down on home testing. It's rare with turntables and not offered at all for cartridges.
    Something like the Degritter is different and would probably be suitable for home testing.
    Of cause they would have to prevent people from prolonged "testing" in a way that they clean half of their collection and then give it back.
    I would happily spent about $150 + transportation for a one day testing phase.
    What about Demo units with a cleaning cycle counter?
     
  5. sublemon

    sublemon Forum Resident

    hmm, I don't think it's too hard. just use ingredients that both clean and are safe for vinyl, at a low concentration with mostly distilled/pure water. I am pretty sure some/most of the commercially available record cleaning stuff on the market is not made by, uh, phd chemical engineers. Could be some I guess, but more likely "Developed in the UK by DJ's, Record Collectors & Vinyl Enthusiasts" or etc like one i saw online. Most seem like basically a bit of isopropyl and mild detergent in distilled or purified water.

    as far as confirming that it works, true, don't have an electron microscope to check the grooves. But I can see and hear the results, and certainly have as much time as anyone to check a record years later and confirm no damage has been done...
     
    r.Din likes this.
  6. terzinator

    terzinator boots lost in transit

    Engrossing thread!

    For those who've used it regularly, do you find a need to re-degrit your albums? (Like every third, 10th. 20th play, whatever?)

    Maybe using the "light" setting?

    Or does it clean so well that it's really not necessary to re-clean? (And just an anti-static brush before playing is all that's needed?)
     
    Andrea_Bellucci likes this.
  7. Andrea_Bellucci

    Andrea_Bellucci Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    Hi Guys!

    Very interesting question. I would also like to know that.

    Bye Andrea :wave:
     
  8. r.Din

    r.Din Seeker of Truth

    Location:
    UK
    Haven't found the need to reclean anything yet, but having vinyl out in the open is going to attract dirt and grime over time... but for now, no, nothing is recleaned.
     
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  9. sharkshark

    sharkshark ThatShelf

    Location:
    Toronto ON
    I've only recleaned in the hopes of getting rid of some baked in noise, but for the most part I'm taking all records (including/especially factory sealed), doing a run, then putting into Mofi sleeves.
     
  10. Squiggsy68

    Squiggsy68 Forum Resident

    Similar - I give everything one run on a Medium setting, then into a 'Nagaoka' type anti-static inner then that's it for now.

    If I come across anything that looks really grubby then I guess I might give it a run on the Loricraft first - but to be honest I don't tend to buy records in that condition, even if they were just to act as 'placeholders' until a better copy came along, if they were that bad then I just wouldn't play them in the first place so don't see the point of having them (my opinion only, of course!).
     
  11. r.Din

    r.Din Seeker of Truth

    Location:
    UK
    Same, actually - have some records with baked in noise and thought I'd try another run, but a second pass on the Degritter hasn't resulted in better results - one pass is enough it seems.
     
  12. jboersma

    jboersma Tower of Power

    Location:
    St. Cloud, Florida
    Just ordered my black Degritter today direct from the manufacturer. If you have any tips/tricks you want to share for new owners, let me know.
     
  13. r.Din

    r.Din Seeker of Truth

    Location:
    UK
    One trick I've found is that when drying, you can turn the stop button to increase or decrease the drying time - allowing you to adjust on the fly. As the water warms up it tends to need much less time to dry so you can dial it down and save time. When cold, you do the opposite.
     
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  14. robertawillisjr

    robertawillisjr Music Lover

    Location:
    Hampton, VA
    I have noticed that the fluid level in the tank is reduced about 20-25% after washing 6 or 7 LPs using the heavy cycle. Do I just top it off with distilled water or try and add some amount of the cleaning liquid?
     
  15. r.Din

    r.Din Seeker of Truth

    Location:
    UK
    The machine will tell you when you need to top up, so no real need to worry about it before then. I only use distilled water, so it's easy for me to top up, but if you are using the cleaning liquid then you will need to factor that in.
     
  16. kfscoll

    kfscoll Active Member

    Location:
    USA
    I’m a new Degritter owner (I just received my unit today) and so far it seems to be working great. However, I do have one question I'm sure the community could answer:

    During the wash cycle, my unit makes a loud “click” precisely every 30 seconds. In the short attached video you can hear the “click” (it’s at 0:08 / “9:10”). Is this behavior normal?

     
  17. kfscoll

    kfscoll Active Member

    Location:
    USA
    To add a little more info, the "click" isn't only during the wash cycle - it happens during draining, filling, and drying too...but not as regularly.

    It's definitely coming from around the power supply, and it certainly sounds like it could be a relay/solenoid switching. If that's what it is, then I have no problem...I'm just surprised I'm the first to mention it.
     
  18. sharkshark

    sharkshark ThatShelf

    Location:
    Toronto ON
    No click on mine...shine a flashlight during the cleaning cycle without a record in there and see if one of the belts is slipping off. Otherwise, or course, send a note to Estonia.
     
  19. r.Din

    r.Din Seeker of Truth

    Location:
    UK
    That's quite a lot of foam on the cleaning too - might want to cut down on the added cleaning fluid
     
    robertawillisjr likes this.
  20. kfscoll

    kfscoll Active Member

    Location:
    USA
    Thanks for the info. I was moving the unit to get a better feel for where the click was coming from and heard some debris sliding around inside the unit. It turns out something small broke off inside so regardless of whether the click is normal (and it sounds like it isn't) I'll return the Degritter to my retailer for exchange.

    The wash cycle had just started - I notice that after about one minute the bubbles are much diminished. I have a little less than 2mL of OEM cleaning fluid in a full tank FWIW.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
  21. kfscoll

    kfscoll Active Member

    Location:
    USA
    Just to close the loop on my short Degritter saga, I received a reply (very rapidly!) from the customer support team in Estonia and was told the clicking is normal. From the firmware change log:

    Version 2.2.9v8
    – Water level adjustments while the record is being washed
    On rare occasions the water level can drift a bit. In order to make it more precise, the machine will automatically adjust it if necessary during the washing cycle. Clicking valves can be heard while the adjustments are being made.

    This adjustment cycle happens every 30 seconds, so that's why I hear the clicking every 30 seconds during the wash cycle. Plus, the clicking at other times coincides with a fluid transfer function, so the solenoid explanation makes a whole lot of sense.
     
  22. robertawillisjr

    robertawillisjr Music Lover

    Location:
    Hampton, VA
    Has anyone found a better cleaning fluid? Just asking. :confused:
     
  23. neubian

    neubian Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    I am also interested.
     
  24. jboersma

    jboersma Tower of Power

    Location:
    St. Cloud, Florida
    My black Degritter arrived from Estonia today and I'm super excited to get it set up and working in the next few days. Got lots to clean!
     
  25. r.Din

    r.Din Seeker of Truth

    Location:
    UK
    Keep an eye on it. Foam is not wanted (I think that's mentioned in the manual?) and you may even see it start to flow onto the label, which you definitely don't want. I no longer use the added fluid and get no foam at all. So, somewhere between no additive and too much additive you start to see foam...
     

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