Thanks Doc ! Can you elaborate a bit more in detail about the differences between Ares and Pontus. You mentioned bass...what about tone, the way voices and instruments are portrayed ? Does it have better layering / imaging etc ? .... As you might tell...I am searching for a reason to sell off my Ares and switch to a Pontus...but at the moment I'm not really missing anything (it seems) so it's hard for me to imagine how the Pontus will improve on that...
You aren't even going to consider the Terminator? There's so much more than entry level. Frankly, there are so many acclaimed DACs out there now at all price points that it would be tough to cut through the noise (no pun intended) and get right down to a few at any give price point that actually rise above. I certainly wouldn't even consider Bryston or Benchmark as worthy, um, benchmarks. Finally, I'll simply add that I've found that it's a bad idea to upgrade components beyond a certain point without legit hi-end power conditioning/distribution and power cables. I recommend Shunyata.
I would say that the Pontus II is actually more bass heavy. The nature of the bass as @Doctor Fine describes is tighter. My impressions is that the bass on the Pontus is both bigger and fuller, but tighter.
Thank you for your opinion. Could you describe the quality of Qutest's bass reproduction compared to Denafrips? Is it less „heavy”? Sorry to mix Chord in this thread ...
The nature of the bass from the Qutest is a bit different than that from the Pontus. The best way that I can describe the bass from the Qutest is that it is a bit clinical and analytical. It's there and it's tight, but sounds a bit artificial. The bass from the Pontus is more organic and lifelike in its sound. Perhaps the bass from the Qutest feels a bit less full than that from the Pontus, BUT I would not use that as a basis for choosing between the Qutest and the Pontus.
All valid points. If I was being PAID to review stuff for your reading pleasure I would be remiss by not having at least a dozen of the latest DACs made from all over the world to compare in between published issues of my professional listening tests. Unfortunately I am only pawn in game of life. You are getting my unfiltered opinion and can view my playback setups on my profile. If that's not good enough for an amateur "tester" then fine. My opinion and my hearing are being offered to you free of charge. You lucky guy.
Hey Bever. You won't want to hear this because then I will make you dissatisfied with your wonderful ARESII. Here goes: Tone on the ARES is a tough act to follow as it is loaded with tone. But the Pontus has even CLEARER harmonic information defining WHICH instrument is playing what. Harmonics are what let you know the difference between a drum machine and real drums. Between a cheap Chicom copy of a famous acoustic guitar and say a Martin made out of prized tonewoods. It defines how 'woody" wood instruments are---for example. And the Pontus is just much CLEARER about the harmonics. Like the difference between a speaker that costs $500 and a similar size speaker that costs $5000. It's a fairly LARGE step up. I find with the ARESII the big claim to fame is how organic it sounds when you turn off oversampling and listen to just the raw data being processed while in NOS mode. So rich. So full. Not so hot when you turn on oversampling AND filter it----ouch! The filters kill the sound ---make it less "bloomy" and "saturated" which is not a bad idea for some systems that don't appreciate how "bloomy" and "fat" sounding it is in NOS. So filtering and oversampling WORK with the ARES---however they mess with what it was doing best, ON MY SYSTEM---IMO. Slow just sort of makes it sound less "inspired." It places things in space in a clearer manner than NOS does but it "tames" the wild tube-like richness enough to lose some of the magic that had been happening. Sharp actually hurts my ears so I didn't like it at all. It sounds like the leading edge of everything is a bit dull, so it actually sounds sort of hard on my setup. My system is rather forgiving but extremely extended with response well over 30,000hZ. I suspect I am getting a pretty good representation of what the DAC is doing and I don't think the oversampling/filtered stuff inside the ARESII is state of the art, haha. So the Pontus is even MORE vibrant than the ARES. But it is also naturally inclined to present a crisper, more clean sound all across the board. It still puts you up front and LOUD---like the ARES. But it moves you BACK and gives an overall better "widescreen" image of the stage. This is true no matter whether NOS or oversampling/filtering is going on. As for the OS modes---they are MUCH better implemented. Even SHARP is not terribly annoying. Just much drier and less "bloomy." A little bit less rich but still shockingly great at harmonics. In short, remember what Herb from Stereophile said about the two Denafrips he tested? "The little ARESII sounded just like its big brother---shrunk in the laundry." Yup. Sorry to tell you that. The soundstage layering by the way is probably the only area I am not completely knocked out about with EITHER dac. The Pontus layers better than the ARES but neither DAC is the last word in placement precision. For THAT I am keeping my Bryston in the rack and will switch it on when I want to "etch" where players are standing in the mix and how far back they are positioned. It's nice to have choices---and by the way I DO get better layering with the Pontus in OS/slow, OS/Sharp modes. Then it becomes much closer to the Bryston but still loses some magic of that fat NOS sound I love. So there are choices to make and small differences. Some are only important to guys that have extremely high resolution off ther sets. So some of this is system dependent of course... As good as the ARESII is I would probably recommend most guys look at their system and if they think it would be appropriate to have BETTER than an entry level "anything' in their sets---simply start off at the Pontus level and save the ARESII for a desktop or system that is just slightly less resolving. Or forget what I just said if you are not too picky---the ARESII is a WONDERFUL sounding DAC and would make just about anybody happy to own it. Unfortunately I happen to think you ARE a bit picky and looking for front end upgrades to lift your entire system. So that's that.
One other thought about getting an Ares II DAC to start. They are very easy to resell at the current time. Perhaps buy an Ares II DAC used to get it right away and order a Pontus II which will be delivered in 4-6 weeks. That way you can compare both with little outlay in net cost.
Or stick the ARES II in your desktop nearfield rig and be happy as a clam. The minute I heard the ARES out in my main room I thought "OMG---wait til I put something like this into a NEARFIELD rig!" "And oh gosh---then I will be FORCED to own a Pontus to fill the empty space in the main room---OH NO!" That day is TODAY. I just rounded up a USB/SPDIF digital to digital convertor and made up some new balanced XLRs and threw coax/optical in a pile. I will be running two DACs in the nearfield---just like the main room has two. One Delta-Sigma for precision. One R2R for fat juicy TONE. Sorry. Gotta run. Lots of fun wiring stuff today! Can't wait to hear my S3/5 Spendors and M&K subs on the desktop fed with all that rich tone. Right now I've not been listening to it all much due to the hard thin sound coming off my Topping D50s. Goodbye Topping. Hello Denafrips!
My Venus II arrived a couple of days ago and I'm really happy with it. It's fed with a Oppo 205 connected with a Blue Jeans/Belden BNC cable w/ a Canare RCA adapter on the Oppo end (this seems to be a better option than RCA on both ends). As much as I love the many things an Oppo can do, Redbook never quite matched the Naim CDX I used to own. The Denafrips will most likely finally let me forget my CDX's demise. I'm getting a bigger, more detailed organic sound, with greater separation that just flows better and is less fatiguing. The only gripes I have is loosing SACD play back and more importantly, loosing the ability to turn down the Oppo's output (I had it's variable output set to 77) - finding it too hot for my amps. With the Venus the Oppo is at full whack and that puts my preamps volume just too low. Maybe I need to look into an attenuated interconnect? I also now find myself hoping Denafrips makes another transport!
Now this is interesting! My desktop system is all high powered NEARFIELD. I hooked up the ARESII in here. And I put my next-best sounding Delta-Sigma DAC (a Lucid 96/24) in the same setup. The obsolete Lucid is demonstrating it still has the moxie to be considered excellent---even if it won't do USB. I'm running a USB digital to digital adaptor (the excellent Topping D10) and both the ARES and the Lucid are volume matched close enough for government work. I always knew some of these older DACs had excellent tone by virtue of outstanding analog sections and decent chips back in the day (the Lucid was a hot item about 15 years ago!) But really, they sound so close in quality it is upsetting. Goes to show that my nearfielding system, while loud and in your face---really can't reveal what my big room setup can resolve. Duh! And when I had BOTH of these DACS out in the main system I had noticed how strong a performer the Lucid still was out there---but forgot about it because---it can't DO 24/192! Just 24/96. And the ARESII was 'juicier" and richer by a little bit and more organic sounding out there by a little bit. But in HERE in the small room it tightens up the race even more. You guys may recall I noticed when listening to the little Toppings that they all sounded impressive on a lower resolving set. But they all sounded quite a bit thinner out in the main room. The ability to notice differences really is tied to WHAT setup you put these DACs into! You know I have been telling folks for a while how great the Lucid stuff is as it is "studio quality" and not built for the home audio guys. In a way that is cool. But if an old Lucid can still stand right next to an ARESII I am impressed all over again. I believe they originally sold for about the same dough. I am just an amateur "tester" of course but all the "big" guys love the ARESII. We can't all be nuts. But that old Lucid has nothing to be ashamed about! At least in a SMALL room the difference isn't that big. Out in the Big room with more resolution the differences on all my DACs get a lot wider. Ha!
I use an Oppo 105 in my system with my Pontus II. What I do is I have the 105D running to the Denafrips but also running directly to my preamp. For SACD and blu ray movies, I use the Oppo naked. For redbook cd and my usb hard drive, I use the oppo running coax out to the Pontus.
This seems an unnecessarily pissy response. I did not invalidate your comparison somehow or question your skill or methods, nor did I indicate anything was being be read into your "review", other than being curious about your opinion, along with others. I simply pointed out that you are comparing a very recent mid-line product with a somewhat recent low end DAC and a couple of quite older models of higher end DACs. The analysis is still valid and there was no personal accusations in my comments. You might consider dialing back the petulance. Robert
I'm both Petulant AND Pissy? Ouch! Guess this guy really hates my writing style. Things were going so well. Then THIS happens. Oh well. I'm ready for a drink---who's buying?
I quickly moved in exactly this direction. I just have to remember to change the preamp's input when watching a film or I get that nasty bitstream noise. I should probably look into upgrading my streaming although most of my critical listening is with physical media.
Thanks for that,very detailed, comparison. Much appreciated! I might look into a Pontus, but I am not in a hurry, because the Ares gives me so much allready. Then, whenever I bite the bullet and get the Pontus I will probably blame myself for not getting it earlier. Oh well, that' s life !
If you want a comparison between Pontus and other recent high-end dacs read this : Review | DenaFrips Pontus DAC It's not your usual run-of-the-mill pro review as the guy uses his own master recordings to compare them, so he should know how these live-events sounded in the first place. Oh, and he comes up with the same conclusion as the doc's findings regarding the correctness of tone/instruments. It takes very little effort you know to search for something like this online! In fact it takes less effort than taking the time to do your longwinded and pretty useless post. As we, not being pro-reviewers, can only compare to what we have/had in our posession dac-wise.
Once you get all the features you want---more money doesn't jump your quality a whole lot unless your system gets "insulted" with anything less than a reference grade product stuck in it. I could go out right now to my main room and not have a clue whether the Pontus or the ARES was playing. But for system "balance" I sleep better at night with a DAC that is priced the same as my other components. I simply had the money budgeted already for the Pontus before I went shopping for a new DAC five years ago. So why not? Quality wise---either the Pontus or the ARES were exactly what the Doctor ordered!
This discussion definitely has me curious about the Pontus, but the next think I’d like to do is upgrade my amplification so I think I’m good with the Ares II for now.
I never indicated I was looking to either of you, or anyone here, to do comparisons for me. I was simply commenting on the value of doing like-for-like comparisons. I apologise for the apparently useless post - somehow I didn't realize this was a private conversation and I had offered the devils advocate thought for anyone else who might be swayed purely by the lop-sided comparison. Of course doing a Google search is easily done. But I happen to generally enjoy the discussions here at SH forums and there are a ton of really sharp and avid audiophiles to learn from. Perhaps slightly less so here, as I apparently have stumbled onto a Denefrips love nest. I'll leave you guys to shine each other's bits and continue looking into Denefrips products elsewhere. Robert
Heh, I followed the same process. I got the Ares because my old CD player gave up, and I said holy #%*@ I can clearly tell that the amp is not up to the task of reproducing what this DAC delivering. So I did some reading and decided to build a 300B kit. Very happy. Then after about two weeks of really enjoying the new combo I started thinking, I bet a Pontus would take this to yet another new level. I’m expecting delivery next week, so we’ll see. I’d have no problem living with the Ares though. Once I opened the wallet my resistance went to zero.
did you get your tracking# recently? I got alerted over 2 days ago that mine was going out but I never got any tracking# - just sent vinshine an email earlier today.
Well good luck in your Google search, might want to try DenAfrips instead of Denefrips for more results though...come to think of it...YOU seem to pretty much fit in here, not being the sharpest pencil of the bunch. And lop-sided-comparisons like this, as you call them, are to be found in pretty much every review-thread here on SHF, so go and shine on your own bits over there too. Might want to even consider opening a seperate thread about your concerns, I bet it would be the wittiest thread ever here on SHF.
The heck, beve? @WildPhydeaux's post was fine -- why are you guys jumping up his butt? My take is that he was trying to be respectful to Dr Fine while making some valid points. It's not how I would have worded a post, but I've seen a lot worse on audio forums. I'm put-off by a lot of forum posts, but this hobby is supposed to be fun so I just ignore them if they leave a bad taste in my mouth. What's accomplished by bringing that negativity to the thread?
