Took a chance and bought this blindly from https://www.vinshineaudio.com/ It was recommended by an audio buddy that isn't easily impressed. Easily the biggest SQ gain I've experienced in a while. Used in between the computer or streamer and DAC, it's very very good.
Im interested in this device. But not sure how much of an improvement it can have on a Terminator T1. The idea is to NOT use USB to the DAC but rather I2S-A which is always preferred by reviewers. How are you connecting it to your DAC?
FYI, the Iris is limited to only USB input (for interfacing between a PC and DAC). Let's suppose you are using a CD transport with an optical out/digital coaxial out into a DAC. You will now need a optical in/digital coax input, etc on the DDC. It is only offered on the higher models a.k.a Denafrips Hermes and up. The Hermes takes the following inputs. Coax SPDIF, TOSLink, AES/EBU and USB
From laptop -> USB cable -> Iris DDC -> Coax -> Chord Qutest DAC. The I2S-A is supposedly the best output to be used on all Denafrips DDC models and is recommended by Alvin of Vinshine. However, even via Coax out, it's a substantial improvement in my system. For the first hour or so, I wasn't impressed, but then I realized I forgot to download the ASIO driver from the support website. Installed the latest driver and after a few hours, I said to myself: what is this? The DDC hype is merited.
Yeah, need the Gaia. Nice upgrade. Seriously good clock. https://www.vinshineaudio.com/product-page/denafrips-gaia
The most simple way I can explain what a DDC does is that you're giving your DAC the purest, cleanest signal. Whatever digital impurities it has i.e. jitter, electrical noise is removed. Those using a computer or laptop are poised to benefit the most, although a buddy of mine is using a DDC with Lumin T2 streamer and he reports the same benefits that I heard.
Not really sure, for asynchronous USB, where the DAC clock and the send device clock are independent of one another and the DAC is reclocking the USB input already, what the benefit is of re-clocking over just allowing the DAC USB receiver and clock to do what it's going to do with the signal anyway, unless you have a DAC that doesn't have great asynchronous USB input implementation for some reason. If you're converting to SPDIF and using the re-clocker device's clock as the clock that's governing, sure, I can imagine it could deliver a different sound. But I think it's a sign maybe that the DAC being used doesn't have a USB implementation that really quite up to snuff if substituting a third party clock and USB receiver in the signal chain improves the sound. Of course, it is possible that for any given DAC and outboard re-clocker/SPDIF converter that the outboard's USB input and clocking is better than the DAC's, I guess, but I think any benefit one could achieve hear would depend very much on how good or not so good the DAC's USB implementation is to begin with. For the price of the reclocker you could probably buy a DAC with USB implementation and clocking that's up to snuff. Is Denafrips suggesting with this that their own DACs don't have good USB implementation?
For any input to the dac that's not asynchronous (which many guys are dependent on), timing is reliant on the streamer. Streamers are lousier in general and hence a ddc could help.. Jitter does go up with asynchronous USB as well as no buffer and fail safe whatever is perfect. At some point, tolerance stackups, design for manufacturability etc all come in play in the manufacture of a dac. No, you won't just get a dac that's upto snuff if you threw enough money at it. You'll get a fancier chassis, brand name and marketing (fancier lipstick on the same pig) instead.
Sure and yes he was using it solely as a streamer transport into a separate DAC. So Roon -> Ethernet Cable -> Lumin T2 -> USB Cable -> DDC -> Coax -> DAC. I'm aware that Lumin's T2 onboard DAC is already very good however he has a better DAC at his disposal.
That was my experience. A DDC (Mutec MC-3+USB) sounded beneficial to me in front of my old DAC, but with a new DAC, I preferred the sound without the DDC. The source component was the same in both cases (Auralic Aries femto). Of course, that isn't a general case -- it was just me -- but rather, an example of what @chervokas proposed. I'd hope that any modern DAC with a good USB implementation would not need an added doodad to sound its best.
I'll just throw out my experience as food for thought. I avoided "serious" digital for a long time. Sticking to vinyl in my main room. Had a few SONOS connects scattered about secondary systems along with a Play 1 in the kitchen and bedroom. 10s of thousands FLAC files ripped to a NAS but still just used primarily as background music. About 3 years ago I got serious about the though of downsizing. Wanted to see if a more potent digital set up could possibly sit side by side with my TT and LPs. I've been at the digital thing longer than most but always as a convenience and in settings were the mood mattered more than the sound. Never in my "real" dedicated room. R2R DACs seemed like the logical point to start since they were touted as more Analogue/Vinyl sounding. I bought a new Denafrips Aries II and was blown away. It lasted less than and month and I sold it and bought a new Denafrips Venus II. Very strange for me to buy two new pieces of gear so close together. The Venus II was noticeably (to my ears) "better". More of everything I liked about the Aries....but not quite as much as I would have hoped given the large price difference. About a year later I got a Gaia DDC for the Venus II. The reason for the Gaia over other DDCs was that thought that someday I might have a Terminator and I wanted the dual I2S BNC clock sync option. Still the Venus/Gaia combo did use I2S connection so I figured in the interim I'd still have a better overall digital system. But how good could it get? I was already listening to vinyl way less and contemplating selling a lot of my more valuable vinyl. To me (again my ears, my room my system) I did not see much if any difference with the DDC feeding the Venus II. By now I had a lot of $$$ wrapped up in the New/sold Aries, New Venus II and new Gaia. I convinced myself that the magic of the DDC must be in the clock sync with Terminator II or T+. I went all in buying a Terminator +. I did not sell the Venus. I kept both for months testing and retesting. I eventually concluded I should have stopped at the Venus II. I've also talked to a couple of Terminator + owners that said the Gaia DDC made zero difference. I eventually sold the Venus/Gaia combo. The only real reason I kept the Terminator + was that the money was already spent and I didn't really need to replenish...it seemed silly to not keep the one at the top of the food chain if I really did not need the cash. I know that is more vanity or ego, but it is what it is. I seriously did not find the DDC helped. To me no difference between: Venus II Venus II with Gaia (I2S via custom built HDMI cable) Terminator + vs Venus/Gaia combo Venus II vs T+/Gaia combo (I2S via dual BNC clock sync) I'm done chasing DACs for a while. I am curious about a maxed out HaloAudio May, but after this multi-year adventure I'm back to speakers, room treatments, measurements and the like. All that said I'm glad I found out for myself. I really wanted the top of the line DDC/DAC combo to be "it". I've not heard an original Terminator, but if it were me and your room is not fully treated or if there are other weak links, I'd guess a higher end DDC is not going to give you much...if anything. The T1 was/is still a very good DAC.
Interesting, thanks for sharing your experience. This is is the first time I've heard an underwhelming report on a DDC. I have 4 audio buddies that have had the same experience as I have. Three are using Mutec and the other Denafrips. You didn't mention what source you were using in combination with the Gaia DDC and Terminator?
Hi @Mike-48 , perhaps the Chord Qutest doesn't have the best USB implementation, I read somewhere that Rob Watts (Chord designer) prefers Toslink over USB in the Qutest. Can I ask which newer DAC you were using where you didn't prefer the DDC?
Sure. It's an Anthem STR DAC-Preamp. Not a terribly expensive unit, by audiophile standards, but the USB implementation seems quite good.
Neat, looks like a modern take on my Genesis Digital Lens. It even also uses an optical analogy, the iris being the aperture of a lens. I’ve thought about creating a similar product, but didn’t know if there was much of a market for DDCs these days.
QNAP NAS i7 NUC as Roon Core running Roon Rock cat-5/6 hardwired ethernet through entire house Enterprise (not consumer) gigabit ethernet switches RPi 4 with Ropieee as Roon Bridge Schiit Freya + with 1940s Ken-Rad military black glass 6SN7 tubes (or not if switched off) Pure Audio Project Trio-15 with Voxativ 1.6 Xillica Active crossover bi-amped with First Watt J2 feeding the Voxativ midrange drivers and Hypex NC400 monoblocks feeding the 4 x OB-A15Neo bass drivers All balanced connections I fully get you can't tell others what they can and can't hear. Expectation bias and confirmation bias is as real as high blood pressure. I'd be willing to bet my entire system against a blind listening test and somebody being able to detect a difference 8 out of 10 times, let alone state a consistent preference. I'm not a measurements only guy...heck I have a R2R DAC over DS and use tubes. I'm happy for anyone that keeps finding way to improve their system and listening experience. I know I'll never stop. BTW, I would not say underwhelming report at all. It surely did not negatively impact the sound. And I spent the money, enjoyed the hobby, found out for myself and passed on my gear to a person that was thrilled with it. We kept in contact...HUGE improvement for him. Excellent!
@47West63rd thanks for clarifying and for taking the time to list down your system. This forum continues to be one of the most civilized audio forums online, where ideas and experiences are exchanged in good faith, most of the time that is
This is a very good question, as the top-of-the-line Denafrips Terminator Plus is around $6.5K, for that price you would think that a DDC wouldn't be needed. I have no experience at all with Denafrips DAC's so I can't comment.
It’s worth considering the other equipment involved. If you were connecting your laptop directly to your DAC, then the Iris would understandably make a meaningful difference as a direct laptop connection is not a good way to go. 47west63rd had a very different chain utilizing a NUC and a Roon Bridge which would’ve already mitigated many of the issues that the Iris (or Gaia) might seek to fix.
