Deutsche Grammophon sound quality

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Da He Hua, Feb 18, 2017.

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  1. vinylontubes

    vinylontubes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Katy, TX
    The only DG record I own is Tori Amos' Night of Hunters from 2011. It sounds fine to me.
     
  2. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    I don't think the DG engineers were backward compared to the rest of the world, but that they had a certain sound they wanted. I wonder if the monitors they used played a role too. A German once explained that it was designed for apartment listening but who knows?

    I don't like most of them but occasionally they are excellent. You won't get hall ambiance very much or realistic bass or high treble. However they can be decent sounding, particularly the orchestral ; I do not like them with vocals.
     
  3. princesskiki

    princesskiki Kiki's Mom

    What I meant was The Matrix is the same as the German original
     
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  4. Sax-son

    Sax-son Forum Resident

    Location:
    Three Rivers, CA
    I have around 50 or so DG's in my classical catalog. I have always like them for a variety of reasons, but never considered them a audiophile label per say. I have other labels that sound better, but overall I feel that DG's are good quality. I tend to like their orchestras and conductors.
     
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  5. Sax-son

    Sax-son Forum Resident

    Location:
    Three Rivers, CA
    William Russo, Three Pieces for Blues Band and Symphony. incredible!
     
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  6. pinkrudy

    pinkrudy Senior Member

    I have 5 classical LPs in my collection.All of them DGG. I loved the way the covers looked. all with the branded yellow banner on top. looked very uniform to me.

    But yea sound quality was a slight let down.
     
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  7. Stencil

    Stencil Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lockport, IL
    The only DG LPs I have are the Karajan Ring and they sound phenomenal to me.
     
  8. elaterium

    elaterium Forum Resident

    They had a whole series called avantgarde. 24 albums, same design but different colors (volumes 1-3). In Europe and Canada they came as 4 box sets. They were my bible. Aside from that they released all of Stockhausen's work plus music by Kagel, Ligeti, Berio, Bussotti, Maderna, Nono, Ferrari, etc. plus American composers: Cage, Brown, Hiller, Foss, British composers: Cardew, Bedford and many others ...probably a hundred composers.
     
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  9. elaterium

    elaterium Forum Resident

    Agreed.
     
  10. elaterium

    elaterium Forum Resident

    Yes, I like the uniformity of them also. I keep all of mine on the shelf together.
     
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  11. LitHum05

    LitHum05 El Disco es Cultura

    Location:
    Virginia
    It appears to be a different matrix altogether. The original even has “made in Germany” in the run outs. Having said that, the US tulip pressing sounds surprisingly good. Much better than many 70s German DGG pressings I have. A thick record, too, as with all the tulips. I know the original German will sound better but I don’t feel so bad about the ten dollars I spent on this one anymore.
     
  12. Mr_Vinyl

    Mr_Vinyl Forum Resident

    It might be interesting to see where the DG recordings that don't sound up-to-par were recorded. Since you mentioned Karajan, you'll notice that his first cycle of Beethoven's symphonies with DG was recorded in the Jesus-Christus-Kirche in Berlin, before the construction of the new Berliner Philharmonie. If you compare the two cycles, you'll notice that the first one has a much rounder and warmer sound, as opposed to the flat and hazy (unfocused) sound of the latter. Now, is it because of the venue or because of the engineers? Maybe it's Karajan himself (the 80's DG's were horrible, probably due to close mic'ing)? However, there are many other great DG recordings too numerous to mention. Personally, if I had to choose only one label that had some sort of audio consistency in excellence, it would probably be Philips.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
  13. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    I believe many of the US pressings of DG tulips were done by RCA at the Indianapolis plant. Check to see if there is an I or XI there.
     
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  14. LitHum05

    LitHum05 El Disco es Cultura

    Location:
    Virginia
    Yes. There is a XI on both sides. So, is this not where the RCA shaded dogs were pressed?
     
  15. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    Well it was the RCA Indianapolis plant where RCA pressed records including shaded dogs. They weren't an exclusive plant for them.
     
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  16. tvstrategies

    tvstrategies Turtles, all the way down.

    Count me among the uninformed, I guess. I was always under the assumption that DG was the gold standard (no pun intended) for classical recordings - And for that reason, I've always sought out DGs. Probably 3/4 of my 100 or so classical LPs and 100 more CDs are on DG.

    Can some of you please suggest some non-DG recordings that make the point of how so-so DG is, by comparison, and why your suggestion is "better?" No, really - sincere request, willing to be educated.

    I'm particularly interested in better understanding the recording, engineering and production details that set your suggestions apart. Thanks

    I do notice that Philips recordings are nice, and have a set of Concertgebouw Haitink Beethoven symphony LP recordings that I like...

    Are there classical counterparts to SH, RL, Wally, Porky/pecko... tops in the field that I should look for, and are they with any particular labels?
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
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  17. tvstrategies

    tvstrategies Turtles, all the way down.

    Is there a listing of these somewhere? I have a few, didn't know there were so many, or that they were a series.

    Edit: found them
    Deutsche Grammophon - avantgarde
     
  18. geralmar

    geralmar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Michigan
    I actually had more problems with the laminated paper DG jackets than the LPs. Over time the glue holding the jacket together would dry out and the jacket would split at the seams, spilling out the LP-- hopefully still in its inner sleeve. Philips LP jackets had the same defect. No problem with the Decca/London cardboard jackets which were (I believe) made in the U.S.; however over time the plastic in the imported inner sleeve would become glued to the LP making its extraction a chore. Worse, the record would have a nasty mottled appearance where the plastic was stuck to its surface. (The LP would seem to play OK.) Since most EMI recordings were pressed in the U.S. as Angel LPs there was no problem with the jackets or cheap paper inner sleeves. Lousy pressings though. Strange that I was more leery of the packaging of imported LPs than the LPs themselves.

    Never seen any of this mentioned so maybe it's only me.
     
  19. BlueSpeedway

    BlueSpeedway Curated Iconic Half-Speed Punk

    Location:
    England
    I recall the Made in England ones sounded worse than the Made in West Germany ones...
     
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  20. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    They aren't the most lush or balanced sounding records. They can sound too bright.

    They aren't unlistenable, and they're better than Columbia classical recordings, but in my experience, they aren't in the league of UK Decca, EMI, or RCA.
     
  21. I don't have any pressings from DG left in my collection but my memory is the sound quality was good. What impressed me most when I was buying them back in the early 80's was that unlike most rock albums the DG vinyl was flat, had very little surface noise and I never had to return one due to a bad pressing.
     
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  22. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    I have about 20 DG classical records so I am not a hater. I find the orchestral or chamber music recordings better than the vocal albums though. But this link is a fairly extended list of mostly classical albums with above average sonics. And anyway if you want a particular performance that is more important.

    BEST SOUNDING RECORDINGS
     
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  23. princesskiki

    princesskiki Kiki's Mom

    Please do not take this personally but I have seen that list before and I find it simply wrong in many parts.

    I will take just one of his premises: That the early RCA Living Stereo and early UK Decca pressings are inferior to the later audiophile reissues BECAUSE OF THE LIMITATION OF THE CUTTING HEAD USED BEFORE THE MID 60'S. While I agree that the cutting head technology may have gotten better after the mid 60's, that premise does not necessarily mean that all early RCA Living Stereo and early UK Decca albums sound better on a Classic Records and Alto Edition (later Speakers Corner) reissues.

    There are a few examples where an audiophile reissue (when the master tapes are still in a good condition and the mastering was done well) sounds actually better than the original overall, taking into account various points of comparison. The Decca Grieg Piano Concerto performed by Curzon is one of those few examples. I have tried at least 25 UK Decca/London pressings of this recording over the years, including at least 10 originals (both Decca and London "blue back") and at least one copy of every reissue by Decca/London into the 70's, and every one of them distorts the first piano note. The original Alto Edition audiophile reissue, however, captures the full dynamics without the distortion. Otherwise, the sound comparison between the original and the Alto Edition reissue is pretty much of a wash. Therefore, to me, the Alto reissue is better.

    More often than not, however, the original early RCA Living Stereo and UK Decca pressings are better than any audiophile reissue. Perhaps on these recordings the limitation of the early cutting head was not as big a factor due to the recordings themselves or the master tapes degenerated or got damaged over time, I do not know. But what I do know is that on these recordings the originals sound better. To use another UK Decca recording as an example (also since the author of that list has the recording on the list), UK Decca recording of Oistrakh performing Bruch Scottish Fantasia is simply not as good on either the Speakers Corner reissued LP or Analogue Productions SACD, although if one did not have a clean, well-pressed original, one may think the reissues sound excellent (which they do). If compared to a clean, well-pressed original, however, flaws appear on the reissues. My guess is tape degeneration. It is interesting to note that for this recording, UK Decca just kept using the exact same lacquers originally cut in 1962 all the way through a part of the 70's (i.e., 1E, 1E lacquers or their metal parts). The only other UK Decca/London LP mastering I am aware of is a mid 70's Ace of Diamonds reissue by UK Decca. My guess is that the master tapes must had been damaged or had degenerated where the previous mastering engineers decided that it would be better to just use the old lacquers/metal parts.
     
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  24. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

  25. Mr_Vinyl

    Mr_Vinyl Forum Resident

    All labels have hits and misses. As someone mentioned above, it would be better to go for the actual performance rather than the label. If you find your DG versions to be indispensable, then stick with them as you will not find that particular performance elswhere. That said, I've compared the Made in West Germany DG's against the Made in Canada ones, and have found that the former is better pressed (less surface noise and hiss). If I had no choice and had to chose just one label, it would be Philips (as mentioned earlier), but truth be told, I don't have that many of them as my performance preferences happen to be scattered among different labels.
     
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