Did GG Allin have a point when he said rock should be dangerous?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by lc1995, Jun 17, 2019.

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  1. Jay_Z

    Jay_Z Forum Resident

    Rap was far more dangerous than this poo flinging Allin clown. Tupac Shakur was in prison while he had a #1 record, then was killed as a result of gang violence.
     
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  2. eric777

    eric777 Astral Projectionist

    I saw a documentary on GG years ago. It was pretty revealing. His father suffered from Antisocial Personality Disorder and even though there was no hard proof, so did GG. His music and his live shows were more about self annihilation then they were about music.

    Sometimes people use shock and dangerous behavior as a way to push others away.
     
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  3. aphexj

    aphexj Sound mind & body

    Without getting political, there is a lot in the real world to which we have immediate on-demand access 24/7 far more shocking and disgusting than what art can dream up
    Rock n Roll at its best did challenge social and authoritarian norms. No longer. Even comparitively tame Bill Haley performances were flashpoints to explosive outpourings of rebellion under the repression of their day
     
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  4. GodShifter

    GodShifter Forum Member

    Location:
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Took the words out of my mouth.

    I would imagine Elvis seemed 'dangerous' to parents of kids that liked him. I mean, these people were listening to Mel Tormé and Lawrence Welk. Then you've got people like Lenny Bruce in comedy that probably were bordering on infringing on accepted cultural entertainment.
     
  5. GodShifter

    GodShifter Forum Member

    Location:
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Was he diagnosed? Antisocial Personality Disorder is a Axis II Disorder and is very difficult to distinguish between other personality disorders like narcissistic personality disorder, borderline and so forth. My point being, how did they know this about Allin's father? Was he in an institution? Was he imprisoned? I'm asking out of curiosity as opposed to challenging you.
     
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  6. eric777

    eric777 Astral Projectionist

    In the documentary his brother talked about the history of his father and commented about his father’s disorder. GG was never diagnosed ;however, his brother made comments about how GG was just like his father. So according to GG’s brother, they did know about the father but not GG.

    The documentary was explicit and was made before GG died. GG himself was interviewed many times. It was a pretty disturbing look at GG Allin.

    Here is the information about the documentary.


    Hated: GG Allin and the Murder Junkies - Wikipedia
     
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  7. The Panda

    The Panda Forum Mutant

    Location:
    Marple, PA, USA
    Alice Cooper was VERY dangerous in the early 70's. Parents really freaked out over this guy and his music.

    Dangerous can go too far. Johnny Thunders playing while his nose runs and all sorts of disgusting crap is all over him, the guitar, and the floor may be dangerous, but it's not my thing.
     
  8. Figure of Eight

    Figure of Eight Forum Resident

    Location:
    Durham, UK
    Rock will never be considered "dangerous" again - certainly not in the sense of how it was perceived when it first appeared, as the world has moved on. Nor does it need to be made "dangerous" again, as popular music has moved on. As long as older people are saying "music was so much better in my day", and they still very much are, then popular music is doing what it's supposed to do. And if you feel that popular music has evolved in a way that you don't like and has left you behind, then that's what's supposed to happen.
     
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  9. GodShifter

    GodShifter Forum Member

    Location:
    Dallas, TX, USA
    What was 'dangerous' about Alice Cooper? How was he any more 'dangerous' than Arthur Brown? There was nothing about his music that was dangerous. His gimmick and image was maybe disturbing, but there was nothing dangerous about Alice Cooper and there never has been.
     
  10. The Panda

    The Panda Forum Mutant

    Location:
    Marple, PA, USA
    Your answer tells me that replying would be a waste of my time. I'm moving on
     
  11. eric777

    eric777 Astral Projectionist

    Please keep in mind that I saw this documentary years ago and I have seen plenty of interviews since so my memory may not be perfect in regards to what was said. You can go to YouTube and try to find it. I looked but was unable to find that interview. I did see the one on there with his mother talking about his father.
     
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  12. Crimson Witch

    Crimson Witch Roll across the floor thru the hole & out the door

    Location:
    Lower Michigan
    The perception of inherent danger
    in
    rock music began with the many
    conservative establishmentarians
    to whom the music was seen as a
    corrupting ideological force and a
    threat to the
    morality of youth.
    Some who held this view did so
    based in part on their own racist
    attitudes. One cannot say the
    music lost its rebellious or danger-
    ous nature
    when there are an expon-
    entially greater number of artists
    freely expressing individuality than
    there were at the time of the genre's
    inception. The change that occurred
    over the course of 64 years was that
    people learned those perceptions
    were
    in fact unfounded and had
    stemmed
    from fear and ignorance.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  13. PopularChuck

    PopularChuck Senior Member

    Location:
    Bay Area
    Steven Wilson and Porcupine Tree nailed it in "Sound of Muzak." Most rock lost any semblance of danger decades ago.

    Hear the sound of music
    Drifting in the aisles
    Elevator Prozac
    Stretching on for miles
    The music of the future
    Will not entertain
    It's only meant to repress
    And neutralize your brain
    Soul gets squeezed out
    Edges get blunt
    Demographic
    Gives what you want

    Now the sound of music
    Comes in silver pills
    Engineered to suit you
    Building cheaper thrills
    The music of rebellion
    Makes you want to rage
    But it's made by millionaires
    Who are nearly twice your age

    One of the wonders of the world is going down
    It's going down I know
    It's one of the blunders of the world that no-one cares
    No-one cares enough
     
  14. Figure of Eight

    Figure of Eight Forum Resident

    Location:
    Durham, UK
    Those lyrics are slightly amusing to me, given how listening to Porcupine Tree makes me feel like my brain is being slowly and gradually nullified - and I don't mean that as a compliment. I enjoy Wilson's remasters, though - feel he has real talent in that area. As a lyric it's very much in "Old Man Yells at a Cloud" territory.
     
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  15. MikeM

    MikeM Senior Member

    Location:
    Youngstown, Ohio
    I get that rock has always been about rebellion to a greater or lesser extent, but:
    1. Insisting that all rock MUST conform to one certain standard is itself antithetical to what it means. My mantra has always been "Different music for different purposes."
    2. IMHO you have to pick your battles. To say that one battle ought to be fought by flinging your own s**t into the audience strikes me as beyond ludicrous.
    My reaction to clowns like Allin and Marilyn Manson has always been one of amused derision. It's like they're saying, "Ooh, look! I'm being outrageous! Admire me, admire me!"

    Give me a break.
     
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  16. Tristero

    Tristero In possession of the future tense

    Location:
    MI
    I think that the supposed dangerousness of rock was largely a romantic myth to attract young people looking for a thrill. Rock music was never really a serious threat to the underlying social order, though some reactionaries might have perceived it as such.
     
  17. misteranderson

    misteranderson Forum Resident

    Location:
    englewood, nj
    Never.

    Rock 'n' Roll was never a threat to overrun any government, or truly upset the status quo. All that talk about revolution in the mid/late '60s, what did it actually amount to?

    Sure, the early rockers scared provincial '50s parents, the hippies scared provincial '60s parents, and punk rock certainly scared provincial '70s parents. You could substitute 'shocked' for 'scared.'

    Rock's "dangerousness" is something rock critics love to rhapsodize about, but it was never real, aside from certain isolated events at rock shows. People have died at soccer matches. Does that mean soccer's dangerous?

    As for GG Allin, rock was certainly dangerous to him and anyone who came out to see him.
     
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  18. DTK

    DTK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Only a pose. I bet they are all trust fund kids. The greatest danger mr rapper faces is a bitch lap from his source of income, his mother.
     
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  19. Chemically altered

    Chemically altered Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ukraine in Spirit
    Don't sweat "artists" like GG Allin. He never made $ and you know he wanted to.
     
  20. Sear

    Sear Dad rocker

    Location:
    Tarragona (Spain)
    I agree.
    I add that is pointless and childish to confront music, "punk vs prog", "rock without roll sucks" , etc.
    I enjoy Replacements and Genesis. I'm for the music
     
  21. MikeM

    MikeM Senior Member

    Location:
    Youngstown, Ohio
    True, it didn't "amount to" a revolution or a full-scale upending of "the underlying social order." But that's not to say it had no impact whatsoever.

    The notion of young people seriously questioning their government was not in play before the folk/protest movement of the early 60s and the rock that followed in its wake. Prior to that, youth was generally politically apathetic. In the absence of those changes, can you seriously argue that:
    1. Johnson would have decided to not seek a second term in 1968?
    2. Youth animus toward Nixon generally had no role in his eventual fate vis à vis Watergate?
    3. The U.S. would have given up in Vietnam in 1975?
    The environmental and women's rights movement also had their genesis in this era. Though the extent of its direct impact on all of these events could be argued, rock was certainly the soundtrack, and often a galvanizing force, behind all of these changes.

    Same response when it comes to the 50s. We're talking about differing definitions of "dangerous" here. That term may be overstating the case, but nevertheless, rock 'n' roll in the 50s did engender significant cultural changes — not the least of which was the notion that teens need not become "adults" at age 18 and automatically turn into carbon copies of their parents.

    In fact, it's not often realized that the term "teenager" itself had almost no currency prior to the advent of rock 'n' roll. Rock helped turn teens into a distinctive group with its own values and concerns, separate from adults.
     
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  22. lc1995

    lc1995 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York
    I'm not defending GG Allin's behavior...I think that self mutilation and dumping on stage fall into "pointless shock value" territory. And extreme metal acts like Cannibal Corpse are also edgy just for the sake of being edgy. What I think is effective is when the music is very enjoyable to listen to while also having some edge factor (relative to its time). Various forms of rock fulfilled this from the 50s to 90s, nowadays many hip hop acts do it (regardless of what Hoffmanites think, a lot of mindless hip hop is pretty enjoyable which is why it's popular).

    The attitude this forum has towards hip hop (I'm assuming most posters are middle aged dads) shows why hip hop still has some rebellion factor for white youth, however it has waned over the years of course as hip hop is so mainstream now.
     
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  23. dmiller458

    dmiller458 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midland, Michigan
    Did GG Allin have a point when he said rock should be dangerous?

    No.
     
  24. dmiller458

    dmiller458 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midland, Michigan
    You can't do much touring from six feet under.
     
  25. bRETT

    bRETT Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    He did however have a point when he said "I Wanna F%^# Myself".
     
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