Did the New York Dolls drag gimmick kill their chances commercially?

I think they where very much of there time and it was not meant to last. However, they where a huge influence on the whole Glam and Hair metal genres

 

I wasn't around at the time, so this is all after the fact, but I'm inclined to agree with the notion that it was the music rather than the image that did it. Glam was a pretty big phenomenon at the time, Bowie and T. Rex were huge in the UK and Alice Cooper were a sensation in America. The only real market they had a chance of appealing to was the glam kids, so it made sense for them to pursue it. The Dolls made great records, but as others have noted, it just wasn't the sort of thing that got played on Top 40 radio in the early 70s.

 

They rocked a little too hard and dressed a little too extreme to ever be accepted by the mainstream.
A cult band right out of the gate, eventually even their management company gave up on them in favor of Aerosmith, another hard rock, bad boy band, but one with a much better chance for main stream success, which turned out to be an accurate call.

 

Nailed it. The New York Dolls image was pure shock value and gained them notoriety. Their music was not for rock jocks anyway.

This colls for some Dolls !

New York Dolls - Personality Crisis

 

The way they dressed was just a reflection of the rest of the bands on the NYC glam (or "street music" as the term went back then) scene. Lots of the bands were dressing that way, the Dolls just took it further and had to know how it would go over. They weren't idiots by a long shot and they felt their music was strong enough for people to see around what was basically a trashy/glam/drag/ take on rock'n'roll flash, and a nose thumb to button downs. It should be noted that David Johansen was a rabble rouser in his youth (great story in the All Dolled Up DVD about him standing on the corner at 6th Ave. and 8th St. pre-Dolls ranting about one thing or another), he loved to stir the ***t.
They were wired to self destruct, even if they had become popular. They were the real deal with real problems and those problems just got the best of them.
The commie thing was Malcolm McLaren's idea when he was managing them, and other than the backdrop and red leather clothes it had nothing to do with who they were/what they played. I was at one of those gigs and they were still a hot live band. Saw them in 1976 with Tony Machine/Bobby Blain and Peter Jordan and they had terrific new songs.
As far as NYC goes, they were always well received. Never saw them at the the Mercer, but saw them at various other places and the crowd was always with them, even the Hippodrome gigs (red patent leather era) were sold out and they had to add more shows. Sadly, their time just ran out and they had to move on.
As @rockerreds mentioned above, the Paul Nelson piece "Valley Of The New York Dolls" explains it better than I ever could. Heartbreaking story and one of the best pieces of music journalism ever written.

 

As I always say, you gotta have the songs, the songs, the songs...

And songs.

No "glam artist", or any arist with a certain identifiable look, will last long without "good songs".

Image can only do so much when you come to putting an actual needle to the record. If you don't like the music, you won't return.

And I do like the New York Dolls. Yet I'm just one lone listener. Apparently listeners at large, at least those who were even aware of their records, felt otherwise.

 

Also, let's not forget how Johansen had much more success - Buster Poindexter. Seriously?! Talk about flipping the script. In the 80s the guy goes total opposite of his NY Dolls imagine and it works (at least commercially) way better! Impressive, especially in the being flexible and knowing which way the winding is blowing department.

 

Got a like from me anyway, good question, struck me as a strange comment as well.

 

Excellent question. My take strictly as a subjective personal impression is yes.

But, all I can say for a fact is that it was one of those album covers that I made sure was safely hidden from my parents lest my rock music listening rights be revoked permanently.

 

I remember Johanssen's early solo albums in the 80's where he yuppified his image and got a crack set of professional players to support him. I think he scored some minor hits, at least in the east coast markets. Anyone remember "Funky But Chic" or "Frenchette?" Then there was the Animals medley from his live album that I remember getting a lot of airplay at the time.

Later he morphed into Buster Poindexter and then later again, an old blues man with "The Harry Smiths" which didn't really surprise me. I recall going to a Dolls show with a friend who wrote them off as a fade that wouldn't last. I responded that Thunders, whom I thought was amazing, really didn't seem long for this world, but David I could really imagine coming back in some blues oriented capacity after hearing them do "Don't Start Me Talking" and "Pills" which I thought were great over-the-top renditions by the Dolls.

 

Being a few years before their time and not having radio friendly songs hurt them commercially. The gimmick may have even gotten them attention they otherwise wouldn't have.

 

They were no Alice Cooper.

 

The problem with The New York Dolls wasn't that they dressed like girls. The problem was they dressed like ugly girls. Versailles did it right:

 

I could give you the answer but your geography is mince

 

I found out from another thread here the Sex Pistols ripped off one of their songs

 

They were a huge influence on KISS though.


(KISS in 1973, as NY Dolls clones):

 

In addition the Stones did not dress in drag for Beggars.
It was HYSYMBSITS

 

Some of the guys were not exactly beauties in their drag outfits. But David? Pretty sharp I'd say"


Sylvain on the other hand... well...

 

The album cover was repellant for me at the time. I didn't care for Bowies glam either. But he had the tunes and the band. The same could be said for Bolan. The Dolls really didn't.

 

Thanks to those who mentioned the Paul Nelson piece "Valley of the New York Dolls". An exceptional article about them.

Valley of the New York Dolls - The Village Voice

 

Or Twisted Sister.

 

Said the man named after one of the worst bands ever inflicted on humanity...

 

Some latent homophobia in this thread.......

 

They had a a certain in-built self-destructive streak, and being managed by Mclaren was certainly a double-edged sword. Their 'attire' may have hindered them in North America, but certainly wouldn't have been a make or break factor in the UK (or northern Europe). I remember them getting quite a lot of good press in The NME, with a breathless review for the debut album from Nick Kent. I rushed out and bought it straight away.

Alice Cooper's image was far more extreme, but they found Bob Ezrin and the art of making radio friendly singles. Thunders got a more successful second shot at things when punk broke in the UK. Sometimes it comes down to just not getting the lucky breaks.

Nick Kent's NME review of the debut album:

 

Their image wasn't a problem (although they were arguably more authentically "drag" than the other glam rockers of the era). What was a problem was that they were a slow-motion train wreck. Ironically, that was also part of their charm.