Did they do a second reissue of OJC jazz albums before the reissues that cropped up the last 10 yrs?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Chester0711, Jun 25, 2018.

  1. Chester0711

    Chester0711 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis,MN
    I recently purchased what i thought was supposed to be, and was advertised as a 1982 OJC of Thelonious Monk - The Unique Thelonious Monk.

    great album, and mine sounds good , except for the fact that it does not fit the usual early OJC , analoge release characteristics.

    First of all , it was sealed, with Obi Strip on front (the 3rd gen Obi at that) the spindle hole has a circle around it about an inch in diameter. No barcode on back.

    Runout = Side A: OJC 064 A4 I . Side B: OJC 064 B4 I

    This runout does not match any I have seen.

    Any guesses when this came out?
     
  2. Veni Vidi Vici

    Veni Vidi Vici Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
  3. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    How does it sound?
     
  4. Chester0711

    Chester0711 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis,MN
    Veni Vidi Vici likes this.
  5. Chester0711

    Chester0711 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis,MN
    It sounds good. It’s not great as it does sound like it has been tamed down a bit. A noise filter may have been applied to some degree.
     
  6. Mugrug12

    Mugrug12 nothing gold can stay

    Location:
    SF
    What does the inner sleeve look like?
     
  7. Chester0711

    Chester0711 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis,MN
    Inner sleeve is paper, not the plastic that comes with many (but I am finding not all) of the early OJC All Analog releases. I swear these OJC releases, while there being a dearth of information available on them (especially here on this forum), are still difficult to nail down which ones are AAA and which ones are not. I think it is the inconsistencies with the George Horn Mastered releases that I am struggling with. I have plenty of GH mastered OJC albums that have the outer sleeve that looks much like todays with the white interior and without the plastic inner....then some with one or the other. Then I have some that have the sleeve and outer sleeve and even the smaller circle around the center hole but no GH in runout!

    It is maddening. What is worse is that I begin to question what my ears are hearing if I don't have these safety blankets because I am a weak person and cannot judge for myself without some sort of data to back it up.

    Happy Friday!
     
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  8. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I have seen both paper and plastic inners on old OJCs from the 80s and 90s. The "I" in your matrix might refer to the pressing plant. For example, some old OJCs have a "P" or a "T" which means Columbia's now gone Pittman and Terre Haute pressings plants. Also, IIRC, George Horn didn't always sign the lacquers when he cut OJCs. Not sure if there was anyone else cutting USA OJCs back then.
     
  9. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Then you can go ahead and log your copy as a different variant or pressing. There are many, many releases that are not on Discogs or that are flat out incorrect because it relies on user-populated data.
     
  10. Chester0711

    Chester0711 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis,MN
    Thanks, yes I have added my copy to Discogs. Should have added that to previous message.
     
  11. Chester0711

    Chester0711 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis,MN
    Phil DeLancie did some of the mid to late eighties (started in '86 I believe)and early 90's releases. They state it on back of the ones he did and also show digitally remastered next to his name when he did them.
     
  12. Mugrug12

    Mugrug12 nothing gold can stay

    Location:
    SF
    I just got one w no GH matrix but it does have a plastic inner that says 1987 very small in the corner. Did they make digital vinyl at ojc in 87 or is that too early? Mine sounds great whatever it is.

    You are cool to admit what you said about questioning your ears w out the comforting info. Most people would not say that. For me I'd like to know but I buy many new records which are all digital so I just accept that if it sounds good it sounds good.

    What sizes does the ring around the center hole show up in?
     
  13. Chester0711

    Chester0711 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis,MN
    Well, and this is all from culled info across the interwebs, the spindle hole (or the ring around it more specifically) comes in two different variations. The earlier AAA versions supposedly have a very tight ring around the spindle hole. The later digitally mastered versions feature a ring that is around 1 inch in diameter around the spindle hole. That said, I have some "tight" rings around some of my higher numbered (later 80's) releases too......

    In my understanding you have three sources or masterings with OJC....The best being the AAA versions of the early eighties and these are highly regarded and I can vouch, they sound wonderful. Then you have the Digitally remastered stuff of the late 80's early 90's, which, the ones I have vary in sound and I am not 100% on whether they are really all digital or if a few are analog. Then there are the newest batch of OJC that you see sealed in your new bins at the record store. These feel cheap and flimsy while also supposedly being sourced from CD, which I have a few of.

    I have a few albums in both the CD release cycle and the 80's release cycle....I bought a few new OJC's when I was just getting into jazz a few years back. I did not know better. My A/B comparison is that these sound more shrill (uncomfortable highs at times) and less base with cymbals that do not splash and sometimes lacking dynamics altogether. The high's and lack of lows are what stick out most in comparison to the earlier releases.
     
  14. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    From older threads where we went round and round on this, I'm not sure the info printed on the back is accurate. OJC got lazy at one point and would just use the same credit art on the back for both CD and LP releases. You could have one from the early 90s that reference DeLancie on the back that was cut by someone else for the vinyl.
     
  15. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Do you have pics of these ?
     
  16. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host

    Once again, I've worked on all the famous OJC titles (for DCC, AP, etc.) and not once did I find evidence of a "digital to vinyl" cut. The OJC mastering notes were in each tape box and at no time did they state that.

    My Buddy Holly two LP set also (incorrectly) mentions digital mastering.

    Just a catchphrase, not actually practical in terms of use.

    Believe me or not as you will!
     
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  17. Chester0711

    Chester0711 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis,MN
    I do have a picture and will post at earliest convenience. It's an interesting, albeit possibly meaningless detail?

    I just picked up a Coltrane - Black Pearls copy which is a 1989 Delancie master (mid 300 #). Noticed the mastering credit on back just says "mastered by" with no digital reference. IT SOUNDS FANTASTIC!

    It is one of the small ring around the spindle hole with a plastic Fantasy inner-sleeve.

    Steve, I believe you and value your input on this topic as you have something we don't, which is first hand knowledge. That said, do you believe it to be true that the post 2000 OJC's (these newer copies that are on the shleves at Barnes & Noble ,et al) were sourced mainly from CD? They definitely don't have the same rich sounds that my 80 & 90's copies have, but I am not above saying that it could be a placebo effect of sorts....like my mind thinks I am hearing something so it must be true?
     
  18. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    I believe the new pressings are sourced from digital with the exception of 2 Sonny Rollins titles that utilize old DCC parts.
     
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  19. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    @Chester0711, for the most recent OJCs all you have to do is look at who mastered them, and usually they have a lacquer sig. Many of these are cut by studios that don't even have a tape machine to cut from analog tape (or work 90% in the digital domain even if they do), so there is little to no chance of them being all analog.

    In some cases where there is no lacquer cutter sig, there are other things that tell us the releases are digitally sourced, such as the Chet Baker - Chet LP with a digital skip in one track.

    There was a period in the mid 2000s to 2010 or so where some were being released without a cutter sig, but I think we can safely assume these are digital where the original metalwork was not used (rare, like on the Sonny Rollins titles).
     
  20. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    I’d pass on the newer OJCs and seek out the original pressings. They’re plentiful and can be had for cheap prices.
     
  21. Chester0711

    Chester0711 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Minneapolis,MN
    Patient, you are confirming a lot of what I have heard likewise. The OP was just confirming more or less that there were basically 2 sets of reissues...one that began in the 80’s and went into the late eighties and another set of reissues that came out in the 2000’s (being the ones that have a questionable source)
     
  22. shawnwes

    shawnwes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    Hi Steve,

    Old thread I know however the topic is alive on another thread.
    It's my belief, and many of my friends who also purchased the OJC lps during that period, and is based solely on the inferior SQ of the Del Lancie re-mastered vinyl reissues which began in the late 80s, that those were pressed using the De Lancie digital remasters. Are you saying you are certain that they used AAA sources for the late 80s & onward lp reissues pressed by Concord Music Group (Fantasy)? If so any comment on why there's such a huge discrepancy in SQ between the early 80s pressings and the ones pressed just a few years later?

    We heard these "fresh from the press" so to speak & a Waltz for Debby from '84 or earlier had easily demonstrable superior SQ over the slightly later pressings.
     
  23. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    Did both have GH in the deadwax?
     
  24. shawnwes

    shawnwes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    Sorry, they were sold on years ago after better pressings from AP became available so can't check. Something went very sideways with the repressed OJC series vs the earlier 80s versions to the point that many of us stopped purchasing them. It was a shame because as you know a large number of those titles are SOTA SQ for that period (late 50s - mid 60s).

    I'd love to see Craft Recordings do a AAA subscription repress of all the classic catalogue from their vaults. The few titles I've got from Craft are stunning and were about $30 CAD which is a steal in this day & age.
     
  25. Mugrug12

    Mugrug12 nothing gold can stay

    Location:
    SF
    what’s the other thread you mention ?
     

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