Digital Sound Quality

Several semi-blind listening tests comparing Apples and hot rodded PCs, to dedicated music streamers have convinced me, that there is a noticeable improvement with dedicated streamers.

Even the $400 Allo Audio Bridge Signature out performs Apple devices.

 

Thousand times this. I'd be investing my money into different masterings of my favourite recordings, rather than just take whatever version Tidal is serving me.

 

More bourbon.

 

The RME is indeed ‘sterile and lifeless’ if one compares it with say a MSB Discrete DAC, which costs x10 more. When such statements are made, the author needs to show comparisons. Is there another DAC of the same price category that beats the heck out of the RME? I doubt it.

I did compare the RME with the Mytek Brooklyn Bridge (used as a DAC). I preferred the sound of the Mytek but then it’s a personal preference and the Mytek costs a lot more. Almost x3 the price of the RME.

I like the RME’s PEQ. Used with something like REW it can help sort out some of the room acoustic issues.

 

I hope to have a serious calibre DAC in the near future. I spent a lot on audio this year so something on the order of Bricasti or Weiss is a bucket list item down the road. I will definitely audition several DACs in home before laying out several times the cost of the RME. It sounds pretty good in my system, I don't use any of it's EQ features other than Loudness when listening very low at night.

I just found a crate with about 50 albums . Half are never opened, the other half have only a few plays each on them
A friend of my Dad's had a bunch of new albums from the 70's and 80's. Great titles, I think it's a sign to get back I to vinyl.?

 

Regarding SPDIF vs USB, I don't hear any appreciable difference, and my ear is as golden as anyone's.

I agree, early USB implementations were bad, but that was a long time ago. Currently, they seem just as good as (or better than) SPDIF to me, at least the ones I have tried, which used recent XMOS chip sets. An advantage of USB is that it handles higher data rates than SPDIF. An additional advantage is that with USB the receiving device controls data delivery, which occurs in packets. This allows the receiving device (the DAC) to control the digital clock entirely, so with a good design, jitter can be kept down.

There is at least one manufacturer I know who makes excellent DACs but is down on USB. That indicates to me a manufacturer who may not have perfected the USB interface to their devices. It does not indicate the intrinsic superiority of SPDIF.

Of course, I always could be wrong.

 

My only comparison to the RME is an older arcam irdac ii. RME improved SQ dramatically over the arcam which sounded bright and harsh at times.

I have always wondered about the Ipad as a streaming device. Great for outdoors around the pool but maybe not so great in my main system.
Never considered the dedicated streamer route. What qualities in a dedicated streamer should I be looking for? How quickly do they become obsolete? I would be purchasing with the idea that I upgrade the DAC at some point in the future. Last, and a question from someone who has no knowledge about dedicated streamers, what is the benefit of a dedicated streamer?

 

I am going to be limited with the remodel. The two areas he recommends are not viable - the short part of the "L" opens into my pinball room and the other area suggested is where the stairs are. May have to play around with some sound panel treatments.

 

You might consider a Bluesound Node. Now on its third hardware generation, it's a very solid device. It would connect to your P6 via analog, or to either the RME or P6 via digital. Plays TIDAL and practically any other source including internet radio and local music on network or USB. You'd still have use of your iPad as a wireless controller. Any other networked device or browser can also be used for control/volume. Sonos Port is a similar option.

One advantage of this approach is that you can add playback zones in other rooms (or outdoors) playing independently or sync'd with your main system. Both companies offer small networked, powered speakers and soundbars for this purpose.

 

I got a Node last week and I love it.

I know that people have various streaming/listening habits. I don't stream but I play files on my computer through the Node. It's worked flawlessly. It's my first foray into digital in more than 20 years.

I am interested in a DAC in the future. There is a lot of conflicting info out there about them. Some test through the roof and are lauded for their sound but go kaput after a firmware update. The first 50 pages of comments are all love and then by page 125, it turns into tears. It's tough to know where to turn.

I plan on using the Node and getting familiar with digital for the next several months and then picking a DAC for it. I did the analog thing incrementally over the span of 30 years. I guess I will do the same with this new (to me) format.

 

Sounds like you have a plan. Depending on the analog side of your hifi, something you might like is a vintage tube DAC. Look for a California Audio Labs "Alpha" or "Sigma" DAC on Audiogon, US Audio Mart, eBay, etc. I've had one for 25 years. Recently had a brand new, modern SMSL DAC in house for a few weeks; nice, but I went back to the CAL. It just makes a sound that I like.

 

Regarding streamers, a few opinions:

- The Blusound NODE is liked by many, and its BluOS is a mature product. If you like BluOS, it's great. Any BluOS device also is Roon Ready, so if you use it with Roon, it will work perfectly, and you'll see the BlueOS interface only for configuration. A plus of BlueOS is its support of a very long list of streaming services.

- BluOS is not compatible with ordinary DLNA/UPnP servers and control points. That may not matter to you. It may be a relief. For me, it is a disadvantage, as I have an outstanding DLNA server available (one that gives me better search ability in my own library than any other product I've seen offers).

- The NODE includes a DAC, and you pay for that as part of the $600 price. Since you have a DAC you like, the iFi Zen Stream at about $400 might be worth considering. Steven Stone reviewed it recently in TAS, if that means anything to you. (I consider SS one of the more reality-based reviewers.) The Zen Stream has a variety of modes, including Roon Ready, DLNA, Tidal, and others. I have not heard it, but I've never seen anyone say its sound quality (through the same DAC) was inferior to the NODE. You might find it better. I don't find most well-reviewed streamers to be much different from one another in sound quality. Perhaps most are indistinguishable to a mortal. I don't know.

So, I hope that's useful, and I hope you have fun with your project!

 

I prefer my Denafrips Ares2 over my RME, both are the same price, matter of fact the RME is more expensive! The RME has lots of usefull functions (like the variable loudness, peq, and a pretty good headphone amp), but I still prefer the Ares and will probably sell the RME in a few months time (or just keep it as a headphone amp which I will never use).

 

Besides the RME (and Ares2) I also have an Arcam Irdac2. I agree with you it's too bright and the RME sounds better. However, I also had an original Arcam Irdac (using a different chip from the II version) which I liked very much and always regretted to have sold it. The Irdac2 (Sabre chip) sounds nothing like the original Irdac (Wolfson chip)!

 

a) Return your RME and get your 1300 dollars+tax back (sometimes, ya gotta end your love affair with certain things to get better things).

b) Get this Denafrips combination
Denafrips Iris DDC for 550ish bucks
https://www.vinshineaudio.com/product-page/denafrips-iris?currency=USD
Denafrips Ares DAC for 830 bucks
Subtotal = 1380 bucks

c) If you have a crappy amazonbasics USB cable or similar, get rid of it and get this affordable higher quality USB cable. The good people at Xangsane will treat you well for 25 bucks.
24.7US $ 5% OFF|Xangsane Single Crystal Copper (occ) Silver-plated Usb Audio Cable A-b2.0 Dac Decoding Hifi Cable Computer Sound Card Mixer Data - Audio & Video Cables - AliExpress

d) Get some moongel, sorbothane, etc and sit your DAC on it. Make that DAC swim/float gently on this gooeey stuff for 12 dollars...the key here is making it float...
https://www.amazon.com/Moongel-Damper-Pads/dp/B003SPUIAG/ref=sr_1_3?crid=MIG0UWA6GSIH&keywords=moongel&qid=1653237497&sprefix=moongel,aps,109&sr=8-3
https://www.amazon.com/Isolate-Sorb.../B019O5RJN2/ref=psdc_2380872011_t3_B00X6R1CTC

 

Thoughts on the Lumin U2? It is scheduled to begin shipping this month. Is it overkill?

 

@StratDoc -- i agree that using your ipad as a streamer is (easily) the weak link in your system. the bluesound node is a solid device (and a great value in the scheme of things) and using digital out into your rme will be a big step up. if you like to tinker, then getting a raspberry pi and loading with your software of choice is certainly a good option.

lumin makes great products -- i'm sure the u2 would be even better than the node.

 

...aside from just checking to make sure your streams and files are lossless? I'd second the bourbon path.

 

My guess is that in terms of pure sound quality, the Lumin will be hard to tell from the iFi reliably in a blind test. I don't know that for sure, but I haven't found well-reviewed streamers to vary tremendously. However, there is more than sound quality to buying a product, and if you think the Lumin works well for your application, it's not overkill. In the end, it depends on your budget and preferences.

In the same price range, I have an Auralic Aries G1, bought during an Auralic trade-in sale. Besides excellent sound quality, the Auralic provides a great display; appearance and construction that give pride of ownership; ability to rip and play CDs, using an inexpensive optical drive; optional PEQ; USB, SPDIF, and AES3 outputs; and ease of software maintenance and control. So I am happy to have it, even though I'm not confident I could tell its output from that of a Raspberry Pi with Allo DigiOne card.

I doubt I'm the only audiophile who is influenced by appearance and perceived quality as well as pure sound performance. That is especially a factor in audio, because our perception of sound quality can be so easily influenced by various biases.

 

Decided to give the iFi zen streamer a shot. As my first foray into a dedicated streamer thought I would dip my toe in the water with a lower cost option. Can always sell and upgrade later. I am hoping for an improvement in sound quality of the Ipad. Streaming off the Ipad is hit or miss with sq. Somethings sound good, others not so much.

 

I am not saying anything bad about the ifi but I do want to point out my experience when wanting to experiment with something new to me. Saving money is great but the results sometimes can be underwhelming you can end up liking it and following through your idea that if you like it you'll upgrade.

It can also lead to the wrong conclusion which is, it makes no difference compared to your ipad and then you are stuck there. Having spent the money and having gone nowhere. As I've said, this has nothing to do with the ifi in itself, it is just an observation.

 

Somebody has to explain to me in concrete terms what is wrong or deficient with streaming out of an iPad vs any other digital source. That seems to be the consensus here but I don't see why that would be. Isn't this the old "bits is bits" argument? Can somebody enlighten me?

 

StratDoc, I was going to splurge a bit and get a Lumin or Aurender streamer last fall, but decided to try the Zen Stream and have been very impressed. Haven't really considered replacing (although digital is secondary in my primary system). I also inserted the iFi iPower X (12V), as mine came with the generic ps. Seems to have helped a bit with dymamics.

You may also want to consider an alternate controller for daily use over the iFi app...I use Mconnect with great results.

 

Try audio science review, they'll be happy to.

 

I would agree with that as taking that path is assuming that output from any streamer should sound better than the output from the iPad. I prefer to listen to equipment before buying and not assume that more expensive equipment necessarily sounds better or less expensive equipment necessarily sounds worse.