Digital Streamer or Dac - the next upgrade

Ok question for the hive mind....what will give me the greater increase in sound quality, I have a Hegel H390 amp and currently run a Blusound Node 2 into it, letting the Hegel's Dac do the MQA unfolding as it's a better dac....my question is this?
If I bought an Auralic Aries G1 or i Bought a Hugo TT2....which would give me the greater sound improvement first, from what i've read the sound on streamers doesn't seem to vary as much say the sound dacs can extract
???

 

Get a better DAC first. A good DAC goes a longer way than a good streamer.

The Hegel’s DAC won’t be that great for obvious reasons. But the Hugo TT2 won’t unfold MQA fully, if MQA is that important for you.

 

Not massively on mqa but after a better sound

 

Take this with a grain of salt because I have never heard any of the gear you are speaking about... But.. My story.

I spent years trying to get happy with streaming. I went from an Emotiva XDA-1 DAC, Meridian Explorer, Rega DAC then a Schiit Audio Gungnir MultiBit. I also went through several Amps over the same period- Emotiva Usp-1 with upa-200, Sherbourne little pa2-50, Naim UnitiQute (as amp amd sourcr), Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum, Naim Nait 5si.

The biggest change and the one that made me happy was changing my streaming source. I tried a Squeezebox, Squeezebox Touch, Purpose Built Mini Computer with various Operating Systems, Fancy Digital Output Pcie Card, a couple different USB cleaner up products. Lastly I ended up with a Sonore MicroRendu which brought the whole thing into focus. In fact, this device makes many of those other DAC/amp combinations sound really good.
(Also been through at least 5 different pairs of speakers)

Moral of my story... Get the best streaming solution you can. Then fiddle with Dacs and amps. I probably would have saved myself a lot of money by getting that done first.

 

I would suggest you give a serious look to the Auralic Vega G1. The Vega is a Streamer/DAC combo. And it sounds amazing. The DAC in the unit is incredible. MQA decoding included.

I had one for a year, and recently replaced it with a Luxman component for system synergy and cd playback purposes.. but it's a fantastic unit. One caveat is that it needs a LAN connection.

 

Have you considered a One box streamer/dac/pre into active Speakers
recently tested dozens of combinations & bought a DCS/Hedd system & very , very happy indeed

 

I'd get a Lumin T2 - I have one running into my H190 and it is fantastic. Knocks the H190's DAC out of the park (I appreciate the H390's is slightly better). Lumin gear is top drawer.

 

Am I missing something here

Why would one streaming device 'sound' different to the next. They are taking a digital stream from it's source and sending it to a DAC. How could it give you ' the greater increase in sound quality' ?

Or are you talking about streaming devices which have the DAC built in and therefore output analogue ?

 

Not sure who this was directed at, but my suggestion was an all in one unit with onboard DAC, yes.

 

Sorry slim, not directed at anybody.

I am just curious as to how one streamer could possibly 'sound' different to another

 

Streamer: Look for features and reliability.

DAC: Listen for good sound quality and objective performance.

As I suspect most audiophiles know by now, bit-perfect streamers sound the same when connected to a good modern DAC with low noise and typically excellent jitter reduction these days. Whether one is using a $100 Pi, $1000 laptop, or $5000 Auralic Aries, it doesn't matter with a good DAC.

Of course, if I made expensive streamers, I would wish audiophiles believed differently and would encourage testimonies that support my desire. Thus far, there has been no meaningful evidence.

 

Well, there couldn't be could there
Thanks Archimago, as I suspected. More marketing hype

I use a home made P7 server running Kodi and Plex on Linux Mint (with everything set to 'pass through')

 

I've been interested in the PS Audio Stellar Strata since early summer, it is a bit of both, and a 150 wpc integrated too.
Stellar Strata

 

My experience was that different digital transports sound different. I don't understand why because 1 and 0 are just that 1s and 0s. I can only assume that noise in the receiver device must be altering/corrupting the signal? Or maybe its software difference interpreting the 1s and 0s?

I didn't think it mattered until I proved that in my house/system it did.

 

If by 'transports' you mean cables, then that is impossible

How could 'noise' in the receiving device change what a sending device is sending?
The software does not interpret anything. It takes a digital stream and sends it to the DAC

There is no 'sound' in a streaming device. There is no 'sound' between when a song was digitized and then converted back by the DAC

Regardless of the network, cables, switches etc., every DAC will receive exactly the same data bits. It is how the DAC implements the various codecs and the quality of it's analogue output that makes a difference to the sound, absolutely nothing else, regardless of the marketing hype

 

For the background this is a video worth watching...

A short film about the Innuos ZEN MK3 | Darko.Audio

 

Just three points if I may. As in the rest of audio, it is always a question of whether to combine functions (as in receiver as opposed to separate tuner, preamp and amp) or to do separates. In the ultra fast developing world of digital it is my preference to separate functions for future upgrades--one function at a time.

Asking whether a DAC or streamer is more important is like asking whether the TT or the phono pre is more important. If you are looking for a very high quality sound, one that rivals the best analog, they are both important. The phono pre cannot do better than the signal it receives. So too, a DAC will perform better if it receives a better stream of digital--remembering that everything running through cables, even digital cables, is analog.

Aside from making digital copies of digital files, there is no bit perfect anything. There is a lot of nonsense in this thread to the effect that all bits are the same and that all conversions within the digital components must therefore sound alike. Anyone who still thinks this should do a search.

 

I can't quite believe I just heard that !

 

I guess we've just heard from the Flat Earth Society.

Believe that. Because if you don't, all streamers, all digital bridges and renderers, all network switches and all digital cables would sound the same. But they don't. At least to those of us with good hearing and decent audio.

 

Why do those who believe that cables and streamers can make a difference keep referring to themselves as the 'flat earth society' I have never understood that. I think there is a huge difference

Here we go 'Golden Ears'..... blah blah blah........ 'my stereo cost more than your house'....... blah blah blah

Anyway I copied your previous post to all the networking engineers who worked for me. You can probably hear them rolling around in fits of laughter from where you are

If your streamer is sending to the DAC a different bitstream than the one it is receiving from Tidal (eg), take it back to the store for a full refund
If your cable is delivering to the DAC a different bitstream to the one it is fed by the streamer, take it back to the store for a full refund

Music is digitised and sent to your DAC where it is converted back to audio. Digital has done something that industry just does not like. It has removed the need for very expensive equipment. They have invented 'problems' like RFI and jitter and timing problems, none of which exist for digital music

 

Good streamer is bit perfect. If it is not, then it is a BAD streamer.

My streaming system passes PCM, DSD and even DTS surround without any changes. If your streamer cannot pass DTS, it is not bit perfect and needs to be replaced with one that does.

 

So in response to the OP

Spend your money on a good DAC

All streamers 'sound' exactly the same

 

I was a network engineer at one time and I'm not laughing. It is the implementation that makes a difference. Power supplies, other components, shielding, etc. To say that people who are hearing differences in sound quality are not hearing the differences is foolish at best.
It's like the measurement crowd about DACs. If it measures better, it is better. Not true in my experience.

 

NO.. I mean the actual transport I used to convert the Ethernet data into either an analog signal or SPD/IF digital for an external DAC. I believe I listed about 4 or 5 different devices/setups I used. Long story short after several years and many devices a really good ethernet/USB transport made all my system come together.

I don't consider myself a flat earth guy whatever that means, but I do have several pieces of gear that I have been swapping out for years. (Tube Amp and SS amp). Also just to make your hair stand up on fire I do notice differences in some cables. .
I have a pair of transparent audio cables that made everything seem dull and lifeless. A pair of Chord Clearway that have a nice top to bottom balance. And a pair of Black Cat Coppertone which seem to have a better transient response while leaving the bass a little shy.

The differences are subtle, but over an extended listening session apparent.

It makes no sense to me that wire could sound different or a digital transport, but it does to me.

If others don't hear a difference then I am happy for them because Blue Jeans cable will do (have some of that too).

I also play in the shallow end of the pool. My gear is usually around $1k and most expensive cable is $250.

Other will disagree with me and that's ok. I'm not worried about convincing you, but on that same note you shouldn't be worried about convincing me.