Dismiss Notice
We are making some updates and reconfigurations to our server. Apologies for any downtime or slow forum loading now or within the next week or so. Thanks!

Dire Straits Brothers in Arms MOFI 45rpm

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by irwin69, Feb 23, 2015.

  1. vinylvark

    vinylvark Forum Resident

    The MoFi SACD would take second place to their latest vinyl release, for me at least. The difference is quite big actually.
     
    Johnny Vinyl likes this.
  2. kingrommel

    kingrommel Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    As i tend to find 45 speed version on songs on 12" Singles to usually be better qulaity than LP's at 33 - I wonder how this New Album version version compares to say - Brothers in Arms 12"?

    [​IMG]
     
    Shak Cohen likes this.
  3. vinylvark

    vinylvark Forum Resident

    Why don't you send it to me and I'll figure it out for you :winkgrin:
     
    kingrommel likes this.
  4. Chooke

    Chooke Forum Resident

    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    I'm always puzzled as to why there is a demand for better quality vinyl of BIA. I like this album a lot musically and it was and is an excellent recording to boot. However it is digital, or DDD in the old parlance. It doesn't matter how good the vinyl is pressed or half-mastered it can never get as close to the original master as a well implemented digital medium, CD, SACD or whatever. Is it the vinyl character sound what people are chasing?

    I'm not saying this to be argumentative or to engage in a vinyl vs digital debate, it is a genuine question? Years ago when I did a bit of work at a recording studio, we had a playback room with high quality playback formats, including vinyl and CD. It was always the case that the CD sounded closer to the mix down master but also often that vinyl had a better mix down or made relatively poor recordings sound ok. We always had some people around the studio that preferred the vinyl playback even to an analogue master. So that is why I wonder if that is the case with BIA.

    Btw - I'm probably in a minority here but I prefer the early CD of BIA to the later remasters, including the SACD. It seems to have more dynamic range and effortlessness to the sound.
     
  5. vinylvark

    vinylvark Forum Resident

    Just because it's digital doesn't mean nothing can be done to improve it. In fact, it's often said it is easier in the digital domain with modern computers and software then it was back in the days in the analogue domain. The original recording was done on a 24-track DAT recorder so I would think it would be easy to create a different sounding record. Whether that means "better" is down to personal preference, though. The original CD was pretty good already but I always found it to sound on the bright side (but still good).

    I think it's a mistake to think that analogue recordings sound better because it contains ultrasonic frequencies. The biggest difference isn't in frequencies humans can't hear (I don't deny they can make a difference though) but it is in the mastering of a record - in my opinion at least. So BiA was recorded digitally at 16-bit 44.1 Khz. Does that mean they can't improve how it sounds or bring out more/other details? Of course they can! It was recorded 30 years ago and I'm pretty sure human skills, technology and techniques have changed/improved over the years.

    The "character" of playing a record is another thing. It does color the sound, there's some form of distortion inherent to the creation of a record (ie, cutting the lacquers) and there is distortion added when the record is played back (their ability to track, and cartridges may boost or color certain frequencies). This might be the reason why some people prefer playing records over CD's given equal sound quality. In this case, the MFSL record really sounds quite different from the previous versions and personally, I think it's the best sounding version by quite a margin.
     
    FashionBoy, Subvet and Geee! like this.
  6. Chooke

    Chooke Forum Resident

    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    Thanks for the reply. I never thought of it from the angle that the original digital recording could be improved. I guess that is the case but I wonder whether it is the mastering that improves it - depending on personal tastes of course? I have heard people say that the earlier BIA sounds 'old fashioned' in the way it is mixed and I suppose that is true because digital mixing has evolved from the 1980s. Again it all comes down to subjective preferences.

    I agree with your comment that humans simply cannot hear ultrasonic frequencies - or that it even matters with frequencies we can hear, there is no evidence on any of that but there is some evidence that very high ultrasonics (such as in 192 sampled files) can make the music sound worse through interference within some amps and speakers.
     
  7. vinylvark

    vinylvark Forum Resident

    That is called inter-modulation and its a real problem on some systems that in theory at least, can even damage systems (although I have never heard of that actually happening).
     
  8. Joey_Corleone

    Joey_Corleone Forum Resident

    Location:
    Rockford, MI
    There is also the argument that "The DACs at MFSL are likely way better than the DAC you have at home". I don't know...I am a huge Dire Straits fan and for me the definitive of this particular record is the digital. In my case, my go to copy is the MFSL SACD. With that being said, since I am such a big Dire Straits fan, I will probably end up with the 45RPM vinyl as well just because.
     
    mike catucci likes this.
  9. PteroDon

    PteroDon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kent ,England
    Ive also noted how great old 12" singles sound. This tempted me into the following shoot out!

    Whilst I don't have the 12" of Brothers , I've got a really clean original 10" , the box set {gz pressing} & the 45 rpm MoFi.

    I found the 10" to have a massively intrusive cymbal/snare , much too prominent. And the vocal sounded course/scratchy.

    Whilst the MoFi , on the other hand is just so natural , nothing grates . Its full , rich , detailed & rhythmic .

    Box set , GZ not Pallas . I lucked into a good quiet copy of this one . Well , its just nowhere near as good a listen as the MoFi. It probably sounds fine , but once you've heard the Mofi , its just not good enough. Sounds dull by comparison.

    After these I gave Money for Nothing a go.
    The MoFi is by far the better one , its tight rhythms sounded like i had never heard it before , & again vocally transformed. Smooth but so dynamic.
    Box version again sounds fine , but MoFi trounces it . No contest.

    In my opinion this is one of the best sounding records I have , by the way BIA is about my least fave DS album . But I can't get enough of this 45 version.
     
    Shak Cohen, vinylvark and motionmover like this.
  10. motionmover

    motionmover Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Couldn't agree more. Best sounding version of this album that I own. I have 3 digital versions including remastered version, SACD and MoFI digital version....also the original vinyl pressing.....hands down this new MoFI 45 rpm version is the best sounding in all aspects. If your still sitting on the fence about the MoFI 45 rpm vinyl just don not hesitate and just buy before it goes out of print. It is so good I bought two copies.
     
    vinylvark and ssmith3046 like this.
  11. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

    I agree with you 100%. It just really brings the music alive.
     
    vinylvark likes this.
  12. VinyLen

    VinyLen Forum Resident

    Agree 100%! Far and away the MoFi 45 RPM is the best existing version of this album.
     
    vinylvark likes this.
  13. Joey_Corleone

    Joey_Corleone Forum Resident

    Location:
    Rockford, MI
    For those with both the MoFi 45RPM vinyl and MoFi SACD how would you say they compare?
     
    vinylvark likes this.
  14. sonofjim

    sonofjim Forum Resident

    Great question. I have them both. It has been a while since I played the SACD but it blew me away when I first played it. The LP sounds pretty close to how I remember that experience. I think it depends on your playback system. Mine is heavily weighted toward vinyl now. If you have the DCS or Meitner SACD playback system and an entry level turntable go for the SACD. I'm gonna play the vinyl.
     
    vinylvark likes this.
  15. moon unit

    moon unit Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit
    I've got the original release of the UK Vertigo 12" single (not the same as the one in your picture) and imo it sounds fantastic. I suspect it was mastered for dance clubs as the bass really brings the house down and the dynamics are huge. The 10" version uses the extremely shortened 7" version (far shorter than the original edited LP) which I've never heard so I can't comment on what the above poster stated. Just going by memory I would say it bests all the album versions but I've never compared them back to back, if I get the chance I'll compare it to the MSFL and post the results.
     
    kingrommel likes this.
  16. moon unit

    moon unit Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit
    I'm sorry but I initially misread your post, my comments above are in regards to "Money For Nothing" and not "Brothers In Arms."
     
  17. vinylvark

    vinylvark Forum Resident

    The SACD offers good dynamics and good level of detail, but is also slightly dull and can sometimes be a bit boring or spiritless (sterile?). I've done quite a comprehensive track by track comparison of 5 different versions on my blog (see sig). Out of those 5, I would rank the MoFi SACD second to the MFSL 45RPM LP, who simply rules them all with quite a distance, in my opinion at least :).
     
    PteroDon likes this.
  18. Paul Saldana

    Paul Saldana jazz vinyl addict

    Location:
    SE USA
    I have the DVD-A, and it beats both the original vinyl & the original CD. Of course, the multichannel remixes just slay the stereo as well!
     
  19. vinylvark

    vinylvark Forum Resident

    Interesting, because the DVD-A had dynamics horribly compressed. Some people may like that (I definitely don't).

    If the original CD had bad sound quality and the DVD-A sounded much better, you might have a point. But the CD sounded good so I strongly doubt the DVD-A had so much better sound quality to offset that dynamic compression to make it preferred over the CD (again, unless you prefer less dynamics).
     
  20. carrolls

    carrolls Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin
    Is the optimum medium for Brothers In Arms a red- book CD.?
    Is it not futile to try and squeeze a better sound out of the 16/44 digital master by putting it on vinyl?
    Or am I missing something here?
     
  21. vinylvark

    vinylvark Forum Resident

    I explained a bit here: Dire Straits Brothers in Arms MOFI 45rpm

    Fremer's review on Analogue Planet seems to agree with most of that.
     
  22. carrolls

    carrolls Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin
    Ok, but we are surely talking about tiny margins of improvement here and to all intents and purposes a remix of the 24 tracks?
     
  23. vinylvark

    vinylvark Forum Resident

    No, the difference is quite big, actually. Remember they can EQ each track individually so the options to make it sound radically different are virtually unlimited.
     
  24. carrolls

    carrolls Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin
    But the mix that is out there is what Knopfler wanted in 1985. And what most fans of the album want. Why change that?
     
  25. vinylvark

    vinylvark Forum Resident

    Because it sounds better?

    That mix is what was possible 30 years ago. Given new technology, technique and experience... well that changes things wouldn't you agree?

    Most fans indeed are happy with the original CD. Records are a niche.
     

Share This Page

molar-endocrine