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Discogs experiences-postive and negative*

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by ROFLnaked, Oct 17, 2015.

  1. optoman

    optoman Forum Resident

    London. UK
    I completely agree that VG+ should be such that you only notice if you pay attention to it.
    In my opinion the biggest problem is in the area between VG and VG+. After all VG is VERY good but it is often given optimistically to something which is not that great even though in the Discogs scale there is poor, fair, G, G+ and then VG. This means that often NM is given to something that is really VG+. VG+ is given to something that should be VG and so on. If NM was given only to something that has been played but is unsealed and sounds as good as you will expect from a new record you just bought. Then VG+ can have some minimal, barely heard imperfections and VG could be really nice and listenable but with some faults. Of course this will never happen but when I grade my records this is what I do. So when I sell something NM I put in the notes that it is "as new" so that hopefully the buyer knows that they are getting something that they will be happy to accept from a shop as a new and not a second hand record. Often people who buy from me something graded as VG+ they are happy because they are getting something that many others will call NM.
    I buy quite a lot from Japan and in my experience they generally think more like me. So when I buy from Japan I am more confident about buying VG+ and often it sounds like NM. I never buy a VG+ from any other country.
    plentyofjamjars67 likes this.
  2. moomaloo

    moomaloo All-round good egg

    The 'ex' grade is something that is familiar to UK collectors and I use it in my Discogs listings where a record/sleeve is better than VG+ but less than near mint. I see nothing wrong with that. And neither do my buyers.... IMO a written description is worth more than a simple grading.

    The golden rule for me is never describe something as better than I would expect if I was buying it (I buy and sell on Discogs). And preferably give the buyer a better experience than they were expecting.
  3. c-eling

    c-eling I never dreamed another way.

    Same here Myke, 78 successful purchases, half probably LP's and 12's/ other's compact discs and singles from around the world.
    The latest was a Canadian OMD S/T with the 10" mix of Messages :)
    When it come's to this format, I realize I'm taking the risk, this isn't a perfect format and I don't expect a 'play grade'
  4. cypert2

    cypert2 Forum Resident

    Cypert, AR
    I’ve bought quite a few records and sold several on discogs without a problem either way. Anything I sell I, if I don’t listen to it all the way through, I’ll at least spot play test. To me, when grading vinyl, the looks are not nearly as important as the sound quality, which can sometimes be very different.
    lazydawg58 likes this.
  5. Eleventh Earl of Mar

    Eleventh Earl of Mar Somehow got them all this far.

    New York
    The only time I was seriously bummed was a NM copy of a record that, was indeed in that condition nearly

    But the gatefold was water damaged so much I couldn't believe anyone had the balls to mark it as that...

    Oh and, same seller, NM record. Has sticker residue on front cover. Are you joking?
  6. featheredfiend

    featheredfiend Forum Resident

    Morris Plains, NJ
    As always, I appreciate everyone's feedback and recommendations - it's one of the reasons I like this forum so much.

    I will definitely follow some of the suggestions provided here should I ever decide to buy something via Discogs again.

    Thanks for everyone's time and input!!!
    plentyofjamjars67 likes this.
  7. Usually people over grading, because they are not precise/careful with the nomenclature
    pinkrudy and jon9091 like this.
  8. sami

    sami Mono Rules

    Down The Shore
    This x 1000.
  9. marcfeld69

    marcfeld69 Forum Resident

    That’s totally what I would have written. I also ask them to play-test and send photos sometimes, if I have doubts. The only real issue for me is IGD. Some sellers are unaware of it, half-deaf, or don’t care.
    David Fischer likes this.
  10. Quakerism

    Quakerism Monk

    Pennsylvania, USA
    I only sell on this forum and in person. I do not buy from Discogs or eBay. With that said, I am a relative newcomer but I have vinyl in my hand every day and grading them visually and audibly. One fact is the longer you look and listen the more deficits you will find. An honest seller will note every deficiency as diligently as their experience will allow them. As a buyer you just have to figure out how to identify an honest seller and cultivate a good relationship.

    For example: Early on I made a mistake grading and selling a mono copy that unbeknownst to me had inner groovewear on the last track. The buyer brought this to my attention and requested a return and refund. I was embarrassed about this oversight and quickly refunded his purchase and he graciously shipped the LP back to me. I used this as a learning experience and because of the buyers patience it made me a better seller. I would definitely try to give that buyer a great deal if a second purchase was ever made.

    There are so many variables in this relationship that it demands a level of trust that can only be developed through positive experiences. One negative experience will usually ruin it. So I think you should be diligent in vetting your sellers. Find sellers who value their reputation.

    Add this: Ask the seller what the source of their inventory is. Some sellers are strictly thrift store resellers. I’d be more interested in private collections as a more consistent source of well cared for vinyl. The more questions you ask, the easier it is to identify and avoid conditions that are unacceptable.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
    plentyofjamjars67 likes this.
  11. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    GentleSenator likes this.
  12. GentleSenator

    GentleSenator what if

    Aloha, OR
    Strat-Mangler likes this.
  13. featheredfiend

    featheredfiend Forum Resident

    Morris Plains, NJ
    Here's the most egregious example I encountered from just a few months ago, but I've had others that were similar - this is the worst-case example:

    - I ordered an item from a Florida-based seller who had a 98.7% positive rating from 587 submissions
    - The seller rated the LP sleeve on the item I ordered as VG+
    - When I received it, there was a 3" split along the top edge of the album jacket, significant scuff marks on the front and back sides of the jacket, the jacket was warped, you couldn't read anything on the jacket spine because it was frayed, and it smelled of mold as if it had been stored unprotected in a damp basement for the last 5 years.
    - In my mind, any reasonable person would've rated this album jacket as "Poor" at best!
    - When I contacted the seller through Discogs, his response was basically, "Hey, if you don't like it, return it..."
    - But at that point it wasn't worth the aggravation of returning it and fortunately the vinyl itself was good enough (which to me was the most important thing)...
    - Furthermore, since I didn't have a high degree of trust regarding this seller, I didn't feel confident that I'd even get my money back if I returned it!

    And yes, although I may be limiting my selection options by only buying from people on this forum, I've never been anything but completely satisfied with my purchases from the good people here.
  14. Mugrug12

    Mugrug12 nothing gold can stay

    That is not true. Here at this forum's sale thread there is EX, it's just called vg++.

    It's helpful and seems unambiguous.
  15. Which usually signals the seller is not seasoned or properly familiar with the Goldmine standard. There is not such rating as VG++, it's hyperbole.
  16. Mugrug12

    Mugrug12 nothing gold can stay

    Something that drills down to be more specific needn't be called hyperbole. Vg++ aka EX is not in goldmine but is used other places like the guidelines of Steve Hoffman FS for more helpful communication.
    E.Baba likes this.
  17. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialist™

    Greater Vancouver
    :agree: And Exc. was created for here to avoid any possible confusion between VG+ and M-. There needed to be an in between definitive grade. Discogs would be smart to use our grading scale IMO, but I might be just a bit biased having created it. :whistle:
    no.nine and Mugrug12 like this.
  18. lazydawg58

    lazydawg58 Know enough to know how much I don't know

    Lillington NC
    When I play grade I often will give a record a VVG if it sounds good but I hear more than one or two places with a crackle or if my attention is divided when listening and while it sounded VG+ I fear I may have missed something. For me to give a record VG+ I really have to hear no more than 1 or 2 very brief instances at most. If I don't hear anything I still give it a VG+. Most records in my experience are VG. There is some surface noise but it remains in the background. The ones that have consistent surface noise that rides on top of the recording are G and anything below that are repurposed arts and crafts objects.

    With that said I don't sell anything online.
  19. marcfeld69

    marcfeld69 Forum Resident

    I wonder about surface noise: at, say, 10 o’clock on the dial, hardly any records I have have surface noise, but much higher, like at 10:30/11:00, they all do!
  20. lazydawg58

    lazydawg58 Know enough to know how much I don't know

    Lillington NC
    I am confused.
  21. dkurtis

    dkurtis sonofthefather

    I believe he is saying that higher volume reveals surface noise.
  22. lazydawg58

    lazydawg58 Know enough to know how much I don't know

    Lillington NC
    Oh, okay. I tend to hear surface noise based more on the material being played. Loud, up tempo music like rock tends to mask it and quieter music like country ballads tends to bring it into the forefront. At least that's been my experience.
  23. Giorgio

    Giorgio Forum Resident

    Varese Italy
    Updating: finally the seller provide me an answer, and he agree to refund me upon received back the LP.
    I shipped back the LP and it arrived to him last 22 February.
    Now the seller says that he will refund me the costs of the LP only, without shipping costs of first transaction (so 69 euros and not 90 euros).
    To me is not correct: he wrongly declared a vinyl NM with a scratch that ruins the whole first 30 second of a song (intro with voice and piano...).
    The fault is from his side, it's not me that I have to pay for it.
    I refused his offer of course.
    I requested the full refund.
    All is under PayPal complaint, I'm waiting now the final decision...

    I do not know who and how it will make a final decision, I hope that the PayPal system will give me reason and then I will get all my money back ... but if I get the refund declared by the seller, I will lose 21 euros .... and it is not absolutely right!!
    Can I do anything else?
    How do you think it will end?
  24. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    In my experience, most people who complain aren't familiar with how Discogs works which can lead to a lot of frustration.

    Firstly, all communication should be done via the order page. Not email or PM. If a seller doesn't respond within 3 days, there's a checkbox you can tick which will cause Discogs to automatically relay an email to the seller about an unanswered message. If they do not answer 3 days after that warning, their account gets suspended.

    Never threaten negative feedback regardless of how frustrated you are. This will not only paint you in a bad light but the seller will have a good case to have your feedback entry removed, and yes, it does happen.

    Keep in mind that some stylus profiles reveal more imperfections than others. For instance, a conical-shaped stylus will be far more forgiving but if you use something like a 2M Black, expect to hear far more ticks and pops. This isn't meant as an excuse for the seller but rather just to provide another perspective as to one of the possibilities why this might have been a simple case of a misunderstanding.

    If you paid by PayPal, you're covered for up to 6 months after purchase... which is ridiculous but that is their policy. Even if the seller doesn't respond, you can create a dispute request directly on PayPal's website. PayPal typically favors the buyer and regardless of whether the seller responds or not, if you send the item back with tracking after getting permission from PayPal to do so, once the tracking information confirms delivery, you will get your funds back (minus shipping, usually).

    For further escalations, I always recommend calling PayPal. It allows for more interaction and the ability to explain in better detail more clearly the circumstances of the issue. No one can guess how the situation will end but the two possibilities are you'll either get shipping fees refunded or won't.

    45 feedback ratings isn't a huge sample size so these situations may happen. Of course, they can occur regardless of the amount of ratings but a seller with hundreds of transactions and a perfect rating is much more impressive and likely to provide accurate grading. Just my opinion.
  25. uzn007

    uzn007 Pack Rat

    Raleigh, N.C.
    I recently bought a "NM" record from a seller with 10,000 feedback and 100.0% rating. It was slightly noisy, disappointingly. But as I think I mentioned earlier, around the same time, I bought a VG+ from a different seller that was almost completely silent.

    Key is to ask questions before you buy. It's a pain in the neck but it can help weed out bad sellers or overgraded records. In the case of the VG+, I asked first. In the case of the "NM", the guy's feedback was so high that I didn't bother to ask, but in retrospect, he was probably grading it visually rather than listening to it.
    pinkrudy likes this.

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