Discogs seller refuses to help

This is one of the reasons I usually didn't buy sealed vinyl from a private buyer. I would rather buy an opened copy from a trusted seller than take a chance on a bad pressing or a warped record.

 

I'd say it depends - if I bought a sealed record from, say, 1972 I wouldn't hold the seller accountable. But if it is a new pressing (MFSL, major label, whatever) from 2018 or 2019 and that in all likelihood a buyer would be purchasing it as a playing copy I feel the seller should offer a refund/return. YMMV. With 4300 transactions, this seller may very well be a 'store'.

 

lol. But we have Easter time.^^ Did you order the LP around Christmas?

 

what?! did you even read the full context here?

this. i don't dabble in the "sealed" market. i'd rather have my purchase vetted and i'd rather vet my potential sales.

 

On the other hand, did he by any chance send it via the US Postal Service? Because packages that arrive via US Post that are promised, over any medium in one way, and arrive via Post not as claimed, can be prosecuted through the FBI.
Now, the chance that the FBI wants to frig around with your dusty record is one thing; but!, the chance that a Discogs seller wants to lose his ability to use the USPS to send his transactions, and get on the FBI Watch List and impact his business, well, that's another thing entirely. This would eff his business up severely enough that, his $20 offer to make things right, might be the best thing he ever did for his business.

 

Did you read the whole thread or just take the OP at face value?

 

Beyond the fact you're going quite overboard with all this, check the OP's location.

 

I can forgive you...you perhaps didn't know we here in the United States can send things across the world through the United States Postal Service. They have an understanding with the Postal Services of other countries...but first it goes through the United States Postal Service.

And yes, if it ships from here, the FBI is indeed the American agency that prosecutes when American shippers ship United States-based mail through the United States Postal Service. Because the Hungarian is not responsible for when a fraudulent U.S. shipper ships fraudently from a United States postal agency. That is on the American.

But, no, I honestly do not know how a Hungarian gets satisfaction from that. But, I do know what happens to a fraudulent U.S. shipper when he ships fraudently through an United States postal agency. So, beyond the fact that you're going quite overboard with your knowledge of United States Postal regulations, either way it can't look good for a United States shipper to screw over a citizen anywhere in the world through a United States agency, because, you know...it's on us.

Perhaps the Hungarian can derive some satisfaction from knowing the United States shipper is likely to never want to go through that again if it threatens his ability continue to do any further international business using his chosen method of United States postal understandings he may have with other countries' postal services...such as the People's Republic of Toronto.

Or, whatever they call that.

 

Yeah did you? Buyer states he got burned & my suggestion was how to pursue justice via all avenues pursuant to the claim

 

Where was the fraud? The buyer got a sealed record. Fraud requires a knowing misrepresentation, reliance, and damages.

 

Perhaps I missed something? Wasn't there some misinterpretation concerning conditioning?

 

No. The record was sealed. Once opened, the buyer found it noisy.

 

How did he get burned? Bought a sealed LP which can't be guaranteed one way or another of its condition.

You're going to argue it's the seller's fault that LP came out of the factory this way?

 

Actually, seller offered a "sealed, brand new" product; not a "sealed, unsubstantiated" product. Seller represented it as such: "sealed" was not the condition; "brand new, sealed" was. It the "new" product isn't right, isn't that the same as buying it from Korvettes back in 1991?

 

No. Sealed implies it's new but offers no guarantee it'll be flawless. Anybody in the vinyl game for some time will recall instances of sealed LPs which were actually in far less than perfect condition.

It's a risk one takes when buying vintage sealed albums. Most of the time, it pays off but there are no guarantees the album will be in perfect condition.

 

Do we know it's a vintage album? Would you accept a new/sealed LP from, say Bull Moose, that was warped, non-fill issues or other defects? Or would you return it?

 

No, we don't know whether it's a vintage album or not. I was responding directly to the member who was proposing the idea that buying a vintage sealed album today is like buying it from a retailer back in 1991... hence my response.

I've already addressed these other points in great detail. Read my posts.

 

Where is the opener of this thread? Why are we discussing this if he seems less interested than we?
I have 2 questions for him, if he dont mind:
1. What was the value of this item, so we can know what are we talking about.
2. What exact words have you used when aproaching the seller beacause of this problem wich he ansewred "merry xmas".

 

Details on what and from whom the OP bought are scarce, but Bull Moose is a different story. That's a retail chain; the buyer has recourse from the seller for defects.

If I, an individual, were to sell a sealed record on Discogs that the buyer opened and it turned out to have a scratch or some other obvious manufacturing defect, how I respond would depend on whether it was a vintage or new and readily available record. I might agree to seek a replacement disk from the retailer where I bought the record, if it's a new one. If it's a vintage one, I have no recourse. Either way, how I choose to respond as the (re)seller is a reflection of my willingness to go above and beyond for my buyers. Under the default rule, I have no obligation if the buyer opens a sealed record I've sold. As soon as the buyer does that, the record is no longer in the same condition it was in when I sold it.

 

Gabe makes an excellent point. Though Goldmine Magazine is only a 60 page issue these days, I remember the days from the 1980's and 1990's where they were 175-200 pages an issue.

I won't name names but in the 1990's there were a few dealers who were buying albums at record shows and resealing them. The album covers were generally mint to VG plus plus, but the albums themselves? Oy! Those people were active at this for years. The people I felt bad about were the foreign country buyers. Back around 1998 I remember an Austin show that I attended and heard some of the British collectors who fly in for the show talking about this very problem. In those days Goldmine Magazine would get a table at the show to not only promote their magazine but also sell album and 45 price books. I know for a fact some of those collectors addressed their concerns to the employees of Goldmine who were manning that table, I listened in on those conversations-it was easy as I was only two tables over from them.

Now, mind you this was 1998 and they were dealing with vintage 1950's and 1960's rock, jazz, etc. In this case, I'm assuming new vinyl-new releases. For this seller to simply say "Merry Christmas", the hobby doesn't need nonsense like that and I don't care if he IS at 99.8%. That's just wrong.

 

Of course, we don't know what was actually said between buyer and seller here: buyer (OP) said that seller "basically" said Merry Christmas. Details are scarce.

Here's an online note from Goldmine on the risks of buying sealed records, for anyone interested. I've seen this topic come up on this board several times, with people getting bent out of shape about the default record buying and selling rules without knowing them first. Know the rules! Record Grading 101: Understanding The Goldmine Grading Guide

 

The lesson to be learned here is sad, but simple:

Do NOT buy sealed records from anybody other than a large retailer.

If you're in this hobby, you have to be aware that sealed records are "buyer beware" and that you can't return sealed records to private sellers.
Because you CAN return records to large retailers, it only makes sense that you would buy from them as often as possible.
No way a defective sealed item can be the fault of a private seller.

 

That happens regularly. It's annoying but at least the resulting discussion in this case is interesting.

 

That might be the lesson for some. There's also a market for buying sealed vinyl and keeping it sealed, of course. That's not for me; I play my records. But there are all sorts of collectors in this hobby.

 

Anyone ever buy a sealed record from the '60s or '70s, excited by the prospect of opening an untouched mint time capsule of a record, only to break the seal and find it moldy? It's happened to me a few times, and the natural result of storing plastic in a paper inner sleeve for decades.