Discussion: The Beatles "Old Brown Shoe" - Paul or Ringo on drums?

Doesn’t the Sde book (which is by definition both SUPER and DELUXE at the same time, and therefor without errors) say it’s John on piano?

 

While we're at it, on Savoy Truffle, who does that random cooing that sounds kind of like blblblblblll? I'm guessing McCartney.

 

At this point I trust the book. I think they heard the tapes and know exactly who was there.

 

I'm not so sure. While Howlett seemingly has all-access to their tapes, it would be mind boggling if he actually listened to each and every session. I just don't think this is feasible. There would be tons of dead time, chatter and stuff to go through... stuff we may find engrossing, but perhaps not for folks with hard deadlines and such. IF new information was obtained in what form did it appear: New EMI documents? Well, why not have a facsimile in the book? Dialogue on the session tapes? Why fade out the chat at the end of the song? The only new evidence is Howlett saying new evidence was recently found. Hardly conclusive. While we're at it how could this information been kept secret for 50 years? It was well-known on John and Paul were on "Ballad", it would have been quite easy to say back in the day that Ringo was "away" filming and was unable to play on OBS as well. I just find it too improbable.

PS I'm leaning on George playing piano on take 2 and take 4. The guitar part on take 2 could have been Paul or John, probably Paul since he also played the same lick on bass. I still can't envision John bothering to learn one of George's parts note-for-note.

 

I've wondered about that meself.

 

The "newly discovered information" used to determine that Paul is drumming on Old Brown Shoe is probably the filming schedule for Magic Christian and therefore set in motion a few assumptions. 1. Ringo must have been away filming (assuming the scheduled shoot actually took place) and 2. Paul must be drumming (assuming that Ringo was away).

 

I'm sure they must have also checked and heard no evidence of Ringo on the tapes of the session, no?

 

They heard a drummer, but I wonder if they based their "finding" on the fact that Ringo had a "scheduled" movie shoot that day or was there something said in the tapes that revealed Paul was the drummer. They do not say HOW they came to that conclusion and I wouldn't put it past Apple to assume that since Ringo was "scheduled" to be away that he actually was away.

 

For some of the outtakes, there's quite a lot of studio chatter. But not for this one, for some reason. Not that I'm making a conspiracy theory here, but would be great to hear maybe at least some of the dialogue, it's not like they just launched into this a few times without any talking. Then again, this outtake is of a song that is not even from the album and they probably thought that this particular case is "boring" anyway, as there's no nice story to go along with it like the ones with "go a bit faster Ringo - ok George" or "last chance to be loud", etc.

 

True. But there was no evidence of Martha My Dear being anything else but a Paul solo recording on the session tapes. I never ever belived that despite how Mark and conventionsl wisdom had it. To me the drum track has a couple of Ringo-ish moments. And lo and behold: Ringo (and George) were on it.

 

- What is ATST. or HTST. (?) in Remarks above the "to be faded"?

- What is that "Crackles <-" next to "1 Drums" track?

 

It looks to me like:

The tape has crackles on drum track at the start (presumably on the intro, before the drums come in), to be faded down.

 

In April 1969, and only in April 1969, Paul's nickname was "Crackles".

Now we know the reason why the new Abbey Road book states that Paul played the drums on "Old Brown Shoe".

 

Crackles McCartney. I love it!

 

Cracka Macca...

 

Concerning the Old Brown Shoe drummer controversy. There is definitely something strange about Howlett's notes for this particular song.

Howlett mentions in the "who plays what " part at the beginning that there's some organ on this track. He doesn't however put the date of the overdubbing session for the organ (18th April), thus giving the impression that the 'B-Side Version' was entirely recorded on the 16th April.

In the text on the very next page he mentions that George overdubbed the organ ( and extra guitar) on 18th April, so he's well aware that this session existed and that the organ and guitar featured on the released track.

Is it just possible that Howlett had a little less time to do his notes for Old Brown Shoe and so made a few short-cuts or mistakes?

And was it a good idea to start his text with the words "George had made several attempts to DRUM UP interest in this song"?

 

I don't know whether its the bass but I can here a percussion sound on the left channel of this song on the 2009 remaster.
Could it be Paul keeping time with a click track!!!?

 

Sheppard on the kit. Playing on those Billy and The Pepper Pots records paid off.

 

Agreed. I still don't believe it's Paul. The drumming reeks Ringo.

 

Been listening to take 2 of Old Brown Show and I'll agree with you, think it's George on piano.
Been fooled by the supposed Martin's production notes, mentioned by the Recording The Beatles book, that really don't exist, after all.
If Paul is on drums, then I think it's George on piano and John on guitar.
If it's really Ringo on drums, then I don't know...
Apart from some minor omissions (backing vocals), think Kevin Howlett did a great job on the 50th book regarding the songs personel.
But on Old Brown Show...

 

I was going to ask about these George Martin production notes. They're often referred to but nobody seems to have them. Where did you read that they don't exist?

Incidentally it was when reading the White Album notes that I discovered Paul plays drums on Don't Pass Me By and Ringo is on piano. Was this common knowledge before? I don't remember the Beatles shouting it from the roof that Ringo didn't play drums on his own song.

 

To my recollection it’s Paul on drums and Ringo on piano as the basic track. Then they switched for an overdub. So double drumming by the two of them plus both of them on piano.

 

For Don't Pass Me By HOWLETT says Paul on drums, piano and bass and Ringo on vocal, piano, percussion and sleighbells.

So only Paul on drums.

You can agree or disagree, but my main question is still : Was this configuration envisaged before the White Album anniversary edition?

If the answer is no, then we're in the same situation as with OBS.

 

Well there are two drumtracks. Listen to the Anthology version.

 

I'm not saying HOWLETT was correct or not. I'm asking if this apparently controversial point was discussed as much as OBS.