Discussion: The Beatles "Old Brown Shoe" - Paul or Ringo on drums?

Oh, I did. It was Paul. He did EVERYTHING.

 

Yes great fun. Thanks for your post. An honest reappraisal.

You've convinced me that the "Ringo could easily have come to the studio after filming" argument is not foolproof.

And the "It could be Paul" argument is not devoid of sense. To my amateur ears the drumming has always sounded sloppy on this track, so the idea that it could be Paul doesn't shock me.

 

Agree on your whole post.

 

Yes, it's clearly George, answering to something John said.

 

The drumstick clicking is on the same track with bass and guitar overdub. The bass and guitar is credited to Paul and George. And if Ringo wasn't present the clicks would be played by John which is very unlikely.

As for the talking at the very end of Take 2.
I agree it John asking "what's burning"?
But to my ears it's clearly George answering "oh, it's this".
But anyway, we agree that it's John asking "what's burning". John is credited as playing the piano on the backing track. Yet his voice is heard far away in the background, had he played the piano the piano mic would pick up his voice clearly as it would be close to his mouth.

There's something very wrong with the line up for this song in the SDE book. Unfortunately, it's not the only one in the SDE books. The most glaring one being the claim that Paul played both piano and organ on the backing track of While My Guitar Gently Weeps. Sure, if he has more than two hands why not...

 

First I heard it as "That's goooood enough" but I admit it does sound more like "What's buuurning up".

 

I've no idea what's being said, but I certainly can't hear Ringo speaking. He has a very distinctive voice.

 

And a very distinctive hooter (nose).

 

Neb

 

Back to the topic of "Old Brown Shoe"... another couple of examples supporting the Ringo on drums argument:

Compare the drumming throughout the intro of "Tell Me Why". That opening pattern sounds awfully similar to what was later used as the drum intro on "Old Brown Shoe".
To my ears, that fill is being played by someone who plays that fill instinctively, with authority. Not by someone who dabbles playing drums.
Secondly, listen to the bridge of "Old Brown Shoe" at the 1:04 mark. Ringo (yes I said Ringo) breaks into a pattern where on the 2 and 4 beats (where he hits the snare) he slightly and briefly opens
his hi hat to accompany the snare hit. THIS is classic Ringo. By 1969, it was probably the most prevalent aspect of his style. Listen to the outtakes and released material from throughout the
"Get Back" sessions and you'll hear what I'm referring to.



Old Brown Shoe (Remastered 2009)

 

Even though its not much, To me at least: The drumming on Old Brown Shoe doesn't "Feel" like Ringo. It gives me the same feeling that Back in the USSR's drumming does. I vote Paul

 

The hi-hat slight opening along with snare throughout the song and also before the first middle eight on the released version is very Ringo, played by an experienced drummer.
Compare with Paul's very stiff playing on Dear Prudence, Back In The USSR and The Ballad Of John And Yoko.

 

Pretty sure Sam has been involved with some big projects with Giles for a while now. Forgive me if someone posted this sentiment already, just now catching up and my memory is spotty sometimes.

 

...gotta dissagree with you on this one. The drumming on USSR always sounded tentative and sloppy to me (not so that of Dear Prudence however which we know is also Paul). But i do I think the drumming on OBS is very solid and consistent.

 

Nice analysis.

 

The other day I was listening to Old Brown Shoe, and out of the blue I thought: 'Wait, Lizzie Bravo is my friend on Facebook, she was outside Abbey Road from 1967 to 1969, and she kept a diary...maybe there's an entry on it from 16 April 1969?!!!'

So I asked her if she had any info on that day, if Ringo was there etc...

Spoiler: Spoiler

...sorry guys, nothing from that day! She has from 15 and then jumps to 20 April 1969!

Well, I tried!

 

Has anyone mentioned the LIB sessions rehearsal of this song yet? Probably bust just checking.
The drums are near identical to the AR takes.

 

Could it have been Linda?

 

Paul Absolutely did not play drums on this

 

Who’s Paul Absolutely?

 

Digging this up again for re-examination...

On first listen to the finished record, I'm inclined to say it's Ringo drumming, not Paul. However, having just listened to the isolated drum track on YouTube, I find it a bit more "ham-fisted" and, as others here pointed out, a bit too "sloppy" to be Ringo...so I'm now coming around to it being Paul. The fact that Paul never played drums in that style before or since is overcome, IMO, by the "ham-fisted sloppiness" of the performance (and I use those terms only in a comparative way to Ringo's usual spot-on drumming). To the point of another thread on this board, the rhythm style of this song is more of a "gallop" than a "shuffle" - Ringo excelled at the latter, so it's not completely out of the park to think that Paul trying a shuffle might result, instead, in a "gallop".

Finally, regarding John's voice being distant at the end of Take 2 when asking "What's burning"...well, it's definitely George responding, "Oh, it's this" - I mean, listening through headphones proves that it's not only the same voice as the lead vocalist, but positioned exactly the same as the lead vocalist. The voice asking "What's burning" is positioned the same as the piano, which most likely was mic'd with the lid off, and with the mic pointed directly at the hammers - therefore the voice of the pianist would indeed sound a bit distant (the mic not being anywhere near his head). As far as the piano playing itself - well, it never occurred to me years ago that it was John playing piano on "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da", until I found out from reading more than one source that it WAS...now, armed with that knowledge, I can definitely believe that it's him playing the same sort of frantic piano part on "Old Brown Shoe" - especially listening to Take 2, where (again, using the word only in comparative terms), there's an element of "sloppiness" that I wouldn't associate with Paul (and of course it's not George, since he's playing guitar on the basic track).

SO...I'm more and more inclined to believe the official credits on this one. None of us where there, and none of us have heard the FULL session tape, so I can only trust those that have heard the tape when they say it's Paul on drums and John on piano. Presumably, they heard Paul's voice at some point between takes, positioned with the drums, and DIDN'T hear Ringo's voice at all.

 

I’ve had this thread and the arguments made within in my mind for a while now, and each time I listen to this song, I admit I do hear a certain sloppiness in the drums, never mind how skilled you think Paul is or isn’t on drums. Does that determine who the drummer is? Maybe.

 

There's nothing sloppy about the drums playing on Old Brown Shoe. Perfect timing and tempo.
It's a VERY tricky part to play and it's absolutely perfect. The super fast left/right hand unison breaks are very difficult to play and it's Ringo's signature style, he used the same technique on I Want To Hold Your Hand, Not A Second Time, Help!, Tell Me Why breaks. Tell Me Why even shares the same intro drum break with Old Brown Shoe!
The Ballad Of John And Yoko is super easy to play on drums and yet it's sloppily played. No doubt that is Paul on drums. But no way it's Paul playing drums on Old Brown Shoe.

 

To be honest, this is the very first time I've heard the word "sloppiness" used concerning the drums on OBS. There's a definite sloppiness on USSR on which Paul is drumming..especially on the fills..I hear no such thing on OBS. The tom-tom runs at the last portion of the song are especially tight. I'm still not saying who's drumming..but if it is Paul, he improved quite a bit from the previous year.