Dishonest Critical Comments about Hardware?

It is a very different time now than 20 or 30 years ago, when everything was not based on an "opinion." I see people commenting on components they've never heard, because the "specs" say this or that. A spec will not tell you how a component reproduces music. Also, if someone has very little experience with the "real thing," any component they listen to is based on a comparison to another component. Not the same thing as actually hearing live music that's not distorted/amplified. And there are so few places left to go to that even do that, it's like a memory for most people - if that.
The audio art is part science, part magic. Otherwise, everything would be perfect by just following a formula.

One poster sniffed he couldn't imagine wanting a Hana ML because its "separation characteristics" were nothing out of the ordinary. When I asked if he'd ever heard one, his response was "Why would I want to?" That's like saying "Why would I ever want to taste sushi because I don't like what it looks like?" I can see someone disliking what they've heard, but otherwise, it's foolish to comment on what you don't actually know anything about. And I've seen that happen ever since the Internet developed, but mostly in the past 15 years. I only comment on what I've heard myself - and usually in my own system(s).

 

Yes, they are everywhere. In print, on YouTube and most of all on forums. One has to learn to navigate the sea or shilling and eternal pit of used car salesman types before you can safely make any choice. It’s very important you hear something for yourself first. Just curious but what is it you aren’t able to get to audition?

 

I agree with you based on your example... but there are many products you don’t need to hear to know they are bad or do nothing at all.
Like Shakti stones, cable lifters and green sharpie on CDs.
Just knowing a bit about basic physics is enough to know that these don’t make a difference.
And, for example, a bit of knowledge about cartridges is enough to know that a ceramic cartridge sounds crappy, compared to MM or MC.

No need to buy those products to prove your opinion.

 

Shakti Stones/online stabilizers work fantastically well. The only tricky thing is where to place them on the component. I've had them for 30 years, and they work on Goldmund, Jadis, Antique Sound Lab and several other VERY expensive amps. I've found that. on, say, Shunyata pseaker cable, you have to move them (online stabilizers) along the cable. AT one point, Usually 15 1/2 inches from where the cable go to connect into the positive/negative terminals, the sound coheres (I had to do it last night). YOu'll notice the music getting a little louder, and the transient information being more "snappy." (And no, it is NOT a high frequency brightness. Quite the contrary).

And I most certainly agree with my former colleague, Jonathan Valim, a high experienced guy, whose experience mirrors mine on the Shakti Hallograph, which I've tried myself. Why they work, I don't know. But many people, I find, spend 10 minutes on something and then say, "it doesn't work." They have no patience. they want it to work like an electric mixer: turn it on and it works. Perhaps this is not you, though. The Shaktis area resonant frequency thing. And I've had them since 1990, so pardon me if my experience leads me to completely difference conclusions. As i once said, I couldn't hear what they did in the earlier days (that was my non-perfect cable setup, where cables touched each other and did NOT cross at 90 degree angles and many of the common sense practices I see people no longer observe. Shame. They could learn from the old-timers.

What was your experience with them?

And cable lifters??????????? You've used these and were dissatisfied? You don't believe in "skin effect"? C'mon, that's been proven decades ago.

As I said, I still don't subscribe to the "I've-never-tried-them-but-they-can't-possibly-work" school. A bit like "the Earth is Flat" belief. Until it wasn't. People use to say that
about the Wilson WATTS, you know. And look where they are now.

 

Now that's perhaps one of the best examples where an experience isn't required in order to know if it's true or not.
I don't need to go into space and look at the earth in order to know for sure that it's spherical.

 

Yes, it happens, there was a famous case in the UK of a dealer spreading bizarre rumours about kit he didn't sell. I am surprised that didn't end in a writ for libel.

I have seen one or two threads on here which IMO are clearly covertly sponsored - it would be interesting to know who is ultimately behind them.

It's amazing we have such a robust industry (so many manufacturers, so much choice) but almost no trustworthy sources of information and appraisal.

 

I'm in the advertising, marketing, and public relations business. I am certain there are folks posting on this forum who are in the public relation arms of audio equipment manufacturers. These people are tasked to to make those posting negative comments about their employers product appear to be uninformed fools, even when comments are from highly qualified informed contributors. I'm also certain that I have on occasion engaged these folks, not on this forum but on Vinylengine.

 

This is why I look for patterns of criticism across multiple review sites. Also I have a couple online reviewers who I have determined over the years have listening preference that align with my own.

At least that's the starting point.

 

It is pretty clear when any member posts about any given brand X, and then another member will consistently reply with the same formula:

1) Lay out the critique of why brand X is flawed,
2) share some colorful stories about their experience, and
3) end with why the brand Y they are constantly promoting is the best solution.

It is obvious marketing.

 

I am a little sceptical that someone on purpose critique one brand to promote another - there are so many competitors around.. It is not like we Coke and Pepsi - for every comoponent there are dozens competing brands.
Purposely glowing reviews, especially of some questionable "tweaks" - I can see that "gorilla" advertisement, especially knowing scummy nature of those "brands", and we are all know who they are.
There are also some members who gave glowing reviews of a component in every related thread while have the same on sale in "hardware for sale" section )).

 

cartridge

 

And what cartridge would that be pray tell?

jeff

 

Ever walk into a shop and ask about a brand they don’t carry? It won’t be an objective opinion. If those same guys are members of a forum, they behave the same way.

I think the idea of an organized campaign by a manufacturer is more than a bit paranoid.

 

This reminds me of the constant slamming of Klipsch by ones who have likely only heard the gold cone models and powered by a cheap Sony AVR on the floor of Best Buy or Circuit City. They then dismiss all Klipsch as bright ear-bleeders from that point on and are quite keen on mentioning it. How many people have never given Klipsch the time of day because of these sweeping generalizations?

 

It is possible..

 

That and people coming to that same conclusion based on measurements. Klipsch has to be the most negatively reviewed brand by people that have never heard what they are talking about.

 

Anything is possible but what is likely is they will trash what you are asking about to sell what they carry.

I was traveling for work with some time to kill and walked into a shop with some fairly nice stuff. He was clearly a classe and B&W dealer. I asked if he had any phonostages and I got a half hour in why only fools listen to records, he was brutal and offensive on the subject. He then plugged his iPhone by usb to a TOTL classe that was driving a pair of 802d’s to illustrate his point. He then told me it was all the audioquest usb cable and tried to sell Me one for $100.

In general, it is a bit rude to go into a shop and ask a bunch of questions about stuff they don’t carry but a “sounds like” Reference point is fair came and came be helpful. But try that with McIntosh or Audio Note as the reference point and you will get an earful.

 

Yes and no. Clearly it's idiotic to say whether or not you like a product you've never heard, but it's certainly possible to make an informed judgment about whether that product would suit your needs. I recently noted on another thread that I have very high-end active speakers with 18 drivers per speaker and cutting-edge DSP that can deliver a flat frequency response from 18Hz to 35Khz, but it's possible to spend twice as much – $165,000 – on a passive two-way speaker from Audio Note with a far-from-flat frequency response from 18Hz to 23Khz. (The price is so enormous, incidentally, because the Audio Note includes forty pounds of silver in its external crossover.)

I have never heard the Audio Note speakers in question. I assume they sound very, very good indeed – nobody would buy them at the price if they didn't. There's a good chance they may sound more pleasing than what I have, but I still wouldn't be interested in them as I value accuracy over pleasing distortion – I want to hear exactly what's on the master tape. I know simply from the specs that the Audio Notes can't deliver that, no matter how lovely they sound.

 

Wow!

You can do what you want. I've heard both them and the Harberth's and understand why people love them.

"Just sayin"

M~

 

Yes, absolutely. I'm sure they sound excellent, as I noted in my post, but sounding excellent isn't my only criterion.

 

Cartridges are the absolute worst in this regard. Its near impossible to audition.

 

Granted. How about "Experience is the best teacher. All else is speculation."

 

This. Spot on assessment

 

I'm done.

M~

 

I am lucky to be blessed with the ability to instantly recognize a lie when I hear it.
Oh wait.
That's a lie...

My own philosophy on the matter is that I trust everybody else just about as much as I trust listening to my own brain---which left to its own devices will chatter away endlessly and pointlessly, when it is there to serve ME, not the other way around.

There is a middle way, said the Buddha.
Selfless ego-less and pure.

Now where did I leave that darn middle way?
Oh, THERE it is!

Signed.
Bodhisattva.

(Just trying to be amusing. Don't call the medics. I'm perfectly NORMAL. Oops. That's a lie.)