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SH Spotlight Distortion free trumpets in the 20s-40s. But BLUE NOTE? WHAT HAPPENED? RVG Evil Neumann mics?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Feb 9, 2017.

  1. Bytor Snowdog

    Bytor Snowdog Forum Resident

    Location:
    Texas
    Is there a way to rebuild those distorted (clipped) waveforms using current technology such as Izotope RX software?
     
    kt66brooklyn likes this.
  2. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    I sure doubt it.
     
    kt66brooklyn and oneslip17 like this.
  3. Poem58

    Poem58 Active Member

    Location:
    Akron, Ohio
    While not Jazz, I always had a problem with Chicago II.

    Chicago was supposedly James William Guercio's pet project He agreed to produce the Blood Sweat and Tears album in return for being able to make Chicago's CTA, as this would give him experience recording horns.

    Well, CTA sounded fine. However, Chicago II, the album as a whole sounded, well limited (sonically narrowed), but the horns sound so, well compressed and nearly buzzy that it is easily the "oldest" sounding album, despite the fact it was newer. There didn't seem to be any clipping or buzzing per se, on the CTA album, so I'm not sure what happened. I'm assuming it was a deliberate style choice as I can't imagine how equiptment quality would degrade in a year.
     
  4. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    Bobby Shad really didn't have a studio, he used Capitol, NYC mostly. His early "field recordings" he did himself with a portable recorder and two microphones. But, I've heard tons of his stuff, no distortion whatsoever.

    I knew his daughter Tami quite well.
     
  5. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    Others can tell you more about Chicago II here but even back then I knew something was wrong. The entire album sounded like my home recordings sounded when the tape was threaded on the machine incorrectly. The multitracks sound fine so it's in the mixing, I guess. I think many of the songs were "bounced" from one misaligned tape machine to another and thus the sound was built in. Sort of like what happened to McCartney's RAM..
     
  6. Poem58

    Poem58 Active Member

    Location:
    Akron, Ohio
    Thanks, at least I know it wasn't just me who felt that way. I did manage to get a copy of II in DVD-A and while it was better still sounded "off" so I tried to "rework' it on the PC and while it sounded absolutely amazing on my sound card and headphones, seems itself to be distorted and way messed up. But someday maybe I can try again. I'm actually surprised no interviewer has ever asked any of the guys from the band if they knew. After all as you pointed out, the DVD-A DOES sound better.
     
  7. bradman

    bradman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lexington,KY
    Such as ...? Those remasters are super bright.
     
  8. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    Heavy duty Limiting, running the two track tapes through a mixing console to narrow the stereo, overindulging in EQ, etc. Avoid.
     
  9. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    I think it basically has to do with studio monitors that are not telling the operator what it really sounds like. Seems to have plagued Van Gelder, Tom Dowd at Atlantic, RCA, Hollywood, etc. Those big Altec horns can mask all sorts of weirdnesses.
     
  10. Ken E.

    Ken E. Senior Member

    Location:
    New Providence NJ
    This type of discussion is why I continue to visit this site. More of this would be great!
     
  11. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    I can't start every one. But you guys can start some.
     
  12. Juan Matus

    Juan Matus Reformed Audiophile

    Oh yes but you don't want to know about how those Evil Numan mics can be fixed.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Sneaky Pete

    Sneaky Pete Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC USA
    He produced a lot of great sounding Maynard Ferguson records. The Blues Roar is a great big band take on Ray Charles' catalog.

    He also did some great work with Blue Mitchell on Mainstream but some of it sounds like multitrack, a different approach. Still excellent clean trumpet sounds.

    It interesting I always attributed the distorted trumpet on RVG trumpet recordings to tape degradation. I don't have much Bluenote on original vinyl. I can often hear "weirdness" on recordings but I'm unsure what the source is.
     
  14. kevnhuys

    kevnhuys Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Check out Steven Wilson's new stereo remix.

    The older DVD-A remix (2.0 and 5.1) is seriously limited in dynamic range (compressed), though it too sounds better than the original mix.
     
    Hamhead, therockman and mpayan like this.
  15. DR.J

    DR.J Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago Suburb
    I have audiophile vinyl and HDtracks versions of Duke Ellington's, "Jazz Party in Stereo." Been playing it for years. On Malletoba Spank, first song, Dizzy Gillespie hits a note, left channel, that distorts like crazy. There was a time I thought it was my system. Is it the microphone distortion that's being discussed here?
     
    ILovethebassclarinet likes this.
  16. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    I'm really enjoying this thread.
     
    ILovethebassclarinet likes this.
  17. Ken E.

    Ken E. Senior Member

    Location:
    New Providence NJ
    With all due respect Steve it's your unique experience and knowledge I am interested in. We have a wealth of experts here on almost every topic that touches music but unless I'm wrong we don't have anyone on your level producing music. Tom Port sold me on this site saying this was the place to learn about my passion. No better teacher here than you IMO.
     
    ILovethebassclarinet likes this.
  18. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    Yeah.
     
    ILovethebassclarinet likes this.
  19. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    I wish Tom still posted here. His insights were funny and great and we share the same musical tastes. At any rate, I'll try and think of some more interesting stuff to write about (interesting to the 12 of us who care.)
     
    Ivan Aaron, bkbk, Dmann201 and 15 others like this.
  20. E.Baba

    E.Baba Forum Resident

    I don't listen to Blue Note or RVG Period Jazz but I have heard of RVG and listened to one of the new ones. With very little to go on as reference I just didn't like it. The obvious Narrow Stereo for a start was just like 'Wide Mono'. I don't know what he was trying to do with those releases, (and I'm not even into it). Makes me scared to buy any more trumpet in case I get the 'wrong' ones. (Blue Mitchell on Mainstream I do like sonically but not so much stylistically).

    This conversation very timely Steve as I was recently told by a Blue Note/Bop fan that there was a whole load of musos who did not want to record with RVG. Up to that point I'd got the impression he was 'The Most Highly Revered'. Learning more.........
     
  21. PNeski@aol.com

    PNeski@aol.com Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    Also Bop guys didn't have as good tone as Swing guys They simply were more interested in different things like more notes at faster speeds.
     
  22. E.Baba

    E.Baba Forum Resident

    That's why I don't like it. 'Brass Shredding' ?

    Less notes at the right time impresses me much more.
     
    Panama Hotel and showtaper like this.
  23. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    Bunny B!! Haven't heard THAT name banter ed around for a long time.
    Good Mosaic box on that guy!
    Polymath!
    The be a v e
     
    kt66brooklyn likes this.
  24. PNeski@aol.com

    PNeski@aol.com Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    great set I have that ,
     
    kt66brooklyn likes this.
  25. Six String

    Six String Senior Member

    I was listening to Miles Second Great Quintet at Juan Les Pins 1967 from the bootleg series on my walk today and talk about distortion. Miles was red lining like a MF but I'm sure that was intentional.
     

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