Diy ultrasonic cleaner

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by bradley a kessler, Mar 15, 2016.

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  1. Vinyl Addict

    Vinyl Addict Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    For the $500 I'm willing to throw at this project, I'm wondering if I'm better off just buying a used VPI? I like the convenience of cleaning multiple records at once, and just the ease of the ultrasonic though.
     
  2. vinylsolution

    vinylsolution Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO, USA
    That's rich! convenience and vinyl. You're killing me!

    I could clean maybe 3 at a time in my UC, but I opt not to.
    I have a one-LP RCM vacuum (Record Doctor), so it works out for me to do one at a time.

    When I pull them out of the UC, they go for a quick rinse, then onto the RCM for a splash or AIVS #6 and another distilled h2O rinse.
    Then I rip them @ 24/192 and put them away.
    Lather, rinse, repeat (with next LP).
    Having a load of LPs coming out of the UC might be a problem for me, but if you are just on a cleaning spree.... I guess I can see that.
    My setup was super-thrifty as I said, and I get good results.
     
  3. Vinyl Addict

    Vinyl Addict Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    Why do you prefer 1 at a time in the ultrasonic? Just a matter of preference?
     
  4. Axis_67

    Axis_67 Senior Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    If your budget is $500 and you don't have a VPI yet, get that first. I really think multiple rinses on a VPI is an essential final step to an ultrasonic cleaning. A good multi-step cleaning on a VPI is all I had for the last 15 years and I was very pleased with the results. It's still a fairly close 2nd to a good ultrasonic cleaning.
     
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  5. Vinyl Addict

    Vinyl Addict Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA

    I'll buy one or the other, but not both. It's still the better idea to go with a VPI?
    If the ultrasonic is better, why wouldn't I go that route? Can't I do a quick distilled rinse in a Spin Clean?
    I'm genuinely asking, before I spend that kind of money, I want to make sure it's the best option for me.
     
  6. jmczaja

    jmczaja Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I built a pretty decent DIY ultrasonic RCM a few years back. To be honest, a vacuum RCM is much more effective in my opinion. I'd go with the VPI.
     
    Vinyl Addict likes this.
  7. Axis_67

    Axis_67 Senior Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    I'd recommend finding someone local with an ultrasonic, a VPI or both to see for yourself what each can do. I think the two primary reasons people have a less than positive experience with ultrasonic cleaning is the cleaning solution used or the quality and thoroughness of the rinse. Think of the ultrasonic as a brush. People don't clean a record on a VPI with just a brush and water, you need the right cleaning solution. Same with an ultrasonic. Secondly, if you use a detergent on a record and let it dry, you're leaving detergent and dirt behind, you'll be able to hear it. Read the article Positive Feedback linked in previous posts and then read the DIY audio posts. The rinse is very important and very clean water (distilled or better) helps to remove the remaining detergent and contaminants. A Spin Clean may work for a rinse, but the water would need to be changed very frequently, possibly more frequently than practical. You're also then left with a wet record and any contaminants in that water are going to wind up on the surface of the record when it dries. This is probably the best reason to get the VPI first.
     
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  8. vinylsolution

    vinylsolution Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO, USA
    I guess I might be over-thinking it, but seems multiple LPs could shield one another [the inner one(s) at least] from the cavitation effect?
    Might be much ado about nothing, but seems like it would get more of the effect being in there solo. But that might well be flawed thinking...
     
    Vinyl Addict likes this.
  9. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    There is relationship among size of bath, number and frequency of transducers and surface area to be cleaned. I don't know the formula off-hand but it is out there to find. There is an extremely long thread on DIY ultrasonic on the DIY Audio site. Rush adopted some of his ideas from there, but took it several steps further--I don't remember how he came upon his surfactant solution.
     
  10. vinylsolution

    vinylsolution Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO, USA
    You're recommending math, aren't you?
    :unhunh:
     
  11. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    sorry. total buzz kill.
     
    Paully likes this.
  12. Tamla Junkie

    Tamla Junkie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    A higher frequency unit should, hypothetically, do a better job cleaning a microgroove record. The bubbles produced by the cavitation effect are smaller. I think with 80 kHz transducers and something to break the surface tension of the water (a few drops of photoflo would be my first choice) that excellent results should and could be obtained. I intend to put this conjecture to the test shortly with a DIY Ultrasonic cleaning setup.
     
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  13. Paully

    Paully De gustibus non est disputandum

    Location:
    Tennessee
    I did what you aren't supposed to and bought the cheap $100 6L ultrasonic cleaner and my results haven't been particularly stellar even though I am following the solution recipe. Might have to spring for the Trusonik if I want to continue this.
     
    Vinyl Addict likes this.
  14. Axis_67

    Axis_67 Senior Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    What are you doing for a rinse and vacuum step?
     
  15. Paully

    Paully De gustibus non est disputandum

    Location:
    Tennessee
    VPI with distilled water 3 times per side.
     
  16. Axis_67

    Axis_67 Senior Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    I don't know if I can remotely diagnose the issue, but I'll try.

    How many records in the tank for each cleaning cycle and how long? 3 or fewer for a 6 liter tank, 4 or fewer for a 10 liter?

    What are you using to rotate the records in the tank? Vinyl Stack or something else?

    Does the tank heat the solution to 30 – 35 degrees Celsius?

    Is this the tank solution you are using?
    Tergitol S-15-3 and S-15-9 in a 50/50 proportion or Triton X-100
    Hepastat 256
    isopropyl alcohol

    When rinsing on the VPI are you using a brush to spread the rinse water and dislodge any remaining dirt and detergent?

    Are you flooding the record with water for the rinse or just enough to wet it?

    If you are doing all this right, only then would I consider that maybe your ultrasonic the problem.
     
  17. Paully

    Paully De gustibus non est disputandum

    Location:
    Tennessee
    I only have been doing one record at a time.

    Vinyl stack.

    Had it heated to a little over 35 Celsius, if memory serves.

    I can't remember exactly what I was doing with the Triton X. Seems like I was doing 5 tablespoons of a 10% solution into a 6L tank.
    No Hepastat 256.
    1 cup of 91% isopropyl alcohol.

    I am spreading with a carbon fiber brush and final rinse is with a mofi brush.

    And I do try to get the thing pretty darn wet.

    Thanks for any input!
     
  18. Axis_67

    Axis_67 Senior Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    Carbon fiber brush is best for dry sweeping. Is the MoFi brush the rubber handle with the flat felt pad? If so, you may want to consider using a brush like this on all the rinses.

    [​IMG]
     
    Gumboo likes this.
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