Do AV Amplifiers make good Integrated Amplifiers?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by FloydVivino, Nov 18, 2020.

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  1. head_unit

    head_unit Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    Oh surely true. But also surely true that most folks are just never blasting near the clipping point very often, so often that simply may not matter.
     
    Shawn likes this.
  2. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    When watching video, yes. Turning up dialogue very much is painful. Not so much with music, that’s where the amp is a bigger deal. The volume knob is generally the thing that reveals the issues or limitations. If you live in a place with shared walls and generally don’t get north of 60db, much of what I’m saying wouldn’t matter.
     
  3. Keep in mind that my AVR uses Class D amplification that not only consume less electricity,they also use to be lighter.
     
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  4. Ephi82

    Ephi82 Still have two ears working

    Location:
    S FL
    I’m pretty happy with my Marantz 8012 AVR. It’s a considerable step up in SQ from the Onkyo TR 638 I had.

    No question it has more power, but it just sounds more substantial, and there’s better sound field imaging, probably because my speakers are getting more of the clean power they need.

    is it as good as an integrated? I don’t know but I sure love how friendly it is to route all my inputs through it.
     
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  5. head_unit

    head_unit Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    A guy in my dorm had one of those monsters. I think the heaviest thing I used was a Crest PA amp, holy moly that thing was a solid brick. Such a contrast to the competing QSC PowerLite!
     
  6. head_unit

    head_unit Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    This is a popular and logical idea...however as a scientist, I doubt there is much actual DATA about it to really draw any broad conclusions.* How many people ever really take time to compare stereo versus AVR (especially of vaguely comparable pricing) directly in the same system? It's a pain in the butt.


    *the only time I've done that was rather an outlier to say the least
    Denon vs Parts Express, round 1
    One time we definitely heard the difference (newer Onkyo versus old Yamaha as I mentioned) it was 2-ch versus 2-ch. And while I could borrow one of those to compare to AVR...eh it just takes logistics and time I'd rather spend on other things. I can say 2-ch PrimaLuna sure sounded great, but I can't say that's better than an AVR since I never heard an AVR in the same system.
     
    Ilusndweller likes this.
  7. head_unit

    head_unit Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    Yeah, like bass management and room EQ, which still lag terribly in stereo equipment despite there being no less need for it.
    ...except for less ability to generate accurate i.e. smoother bass response. (Which if you are a bit lucky in your room and placement might be achievable with adjustable crossovers and analog EQ, but 2-channel amps with such are like one Outlaw and a couple Parasounds only AFAIK).
     
    Brother_Rael likes this.
  8. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    sorry, this was a rhetorical question. translation- if it ain't got tubes it ain't that great......
     
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  9. head_unit

    head_unit Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    The first part is logical and true BUT totally ignores the huge influence of sales quantity.

    You can't say "oh instead of 5 amp channels at $50 apiece = $250, plus a chassis etc at $100 = $350, let's make a 2-channel. That will be 2x$50 + $100 = $200!! Yay!!" NOT really, because due to lower production quantity, now each channel might be $100 and the chassis etc more expensive. You get $200+$150 and guess what it is now $350!!

    Of course those numbers are just pulled out of the air nevertheless having worked years in product planning the production run size really has those kind of effects on cost. Now if you literally made a stripped down AVR using the same exact chassis and same exact amp modules, even the same power supply, thereby sharing costs to the AVRs, you'd get closer cost parity. I do not get the impression anyone is doing that.
     
  10. Mike from NYC

    Mike from NYC Senior Member

    Location:
    Surprise, AZ
    I have Yammie Receivers and 2 Yammie AVRs and they basically sound the same when both are used in 'Pure' or 'Direct' mode. Even my old RXV-1500 sounds good but doesn't have the power to really drive my speakers loud as do the receivers.

    Of course they don't sound as good as my main stereo pre and amp but then again those 2 components are far, far more expensive and sound it.

    Buy a cheap used AVR w/o HDMI and you'll get a bargain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  11. Douglas Lam

    Douglas Lam Forum Resident

    Location:
    Asia
    I think the picture is clearer if you look at the spectrum of music systems ranging from poor to excellent. If you look at the extreme and most expensive hi-end music systems, they always use separates (pre-power) for the amplification stage. The reason is that (other than looking expensive LOL) the signal is cleaner when things are separated and do not interfere with each other (preamp and power is getting it's own independent power source). And rarely these Preamps have digital inputs in these type of systems (pure analog) because digital signals create the most signal noise because of the high frequency switching, so they do not put them in the same box. On top of that, they spend tons of money on power conditioning, just to make sure the power does not get polluted from any digital sources nearby.

    So if you look at an AVR, it's DAC, Signal processor, bluetooth, wifi, digital video signals, Pre-power amp all squeezed into a single box. You do the judgement.
     
    McLover likes this.
  12. rodentdog

    rodentdog Senior Member

    I have a Yamaha RX-Z9. Former flagship AVR from mid 2000's. Last round of the "Receiver Wars". Built to compete with Denon 5803, etc. 170 watts/channel. Weighs about 65 lbs. Cost about $4500-5000 new. I paid about $650.00 about 5 years ago. Good value for money I'd say. Sounds excellent to me. Only use it A+B in the same very large/tall room.
     
  13. marysdad

    marysdad Forum Resident

    Location:
    No. Texas
    This pretty much nails it for my experience. I got back into 2-channel when our 20-year old Denon AVR-3000's pro-logic circuit went out. The wife let me have the Denon for 2-channel. It was competent, even the phono output. I was happy. Then, the Denon lost a channel. I replaced it with a Pioneer SX-950 and OMG how much better that sounded.
     
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  14. PTgraphics

    PTgraphics Senior Member

    I tried 2 old Yamaha receivers, one was an 1400, and they both were terrible with my Martin Logan Theos speakers. I knew they would be with the load of the Theos. I wanted the more powerful one to work but just not a good match. I was and still am looking for a stereo only receiver or integrated for the Theos. The Yamaha did sound great in direct mode with other regular speakers. Better than my newer Pioneer.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
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  15. ronm

    ronm audiofreak

    Location:
    southern colo.
    I have the TOTL Yamahas RXZ9 and RXV1.Both weigh in the 65 lb. range.Both sound excellent.The Z9 has the ability to run two subs at the same time.For what I paid for them a few years ago I think I got one of the best deals in audio.
     
  16. unclefred

    unclefred Coastie with the Moastie

    Location:
    Oregon Coast
    Way back when I had an SX=1050, I really liked that one.
     
  17. Jacob29

    Jacob29 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kansas City
    Avrs and integrated amplifiers are purpose-built for their uses. That's like asking does a Suburban make a good track day car. Can you put a Suburban on the track sure but its main uses hauling 7 people and the dog (7.1). Is also something to be said for I am looking for a completely different sound signature in a home theater setup then I would be for two-channel stereo. As are at the manufacturers
     
    Douglas Lam likes this.
  18. Standingstones

    Standingstones Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Central PA
    The problem is, how much of that 20 kilos (44 pounds) is actually the power supply? Not as much as you imagine.
     
  19. I've cleaned its innards plenty of times since the warranty expired and I can tell you that the power supply is MASSIVE.
     
  20. csgreene

    csgreene Forum Resident

    Location:
    Idaho, USA
    It all depends on the receiver. My mid-90's Yamaha RX-V990 is an outstanding 2-channel amp with a very good built in phono stage. It's also quite decent as a 5.1 AV amp. I only run it as 5 as I hate subwoofers.
     
    ronm and Shawn like this.
  21. One of the reasons I bought my Anthem 520 is because their aim was to make AVRs that also sound great in stereo. Granted my ears are less fussy than many here but it sounds great in either mode to me.
     
  22. Outside of those of us who’ve compared a few AVRs to dedicated stereo integrateds (which is obviously far from conclusive) I’m not aware of any true study comparing the two so all of this is a bit hypothetical.
     
    Henry J likes this.
  23. JakeMcD

    JakeMcD Forum Resident

    Location:
    So Central FL
    I believe the intent of the OP is to determine if there is relative value with AV receivers compared to integrateds. The consistent answer is yes, for the right one. Members on this forum certainly would agree that an integrated is more purpose built. But there are TOTL AVs that offer a fine 2ch experience. And you can pick up reliable Japan built units for a song and have pride of ownership in the deal.
     
  24. My Yamaha RXZ1 (AVR) does a very good job with 2 channel audio.
     
    Brother_Rael, ronm and JakeMcD like this.
  25. Peter Allison

    Peter Allison Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sleaford/UK
    Its a good amp, I bought one last year
     
    kevywevy likes this.
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