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Do I have to decide between having an automatic turntable and a good turntable?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Oscillation, Apr 29, 2021.

  1. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    Your understanding of how the arm works on a decent automatic turntable could not be more wrong. Have you ever picked the arm up and moved it while it’s over the record? Zero drag.
     
  2. coolhandjjl

    coolhandjjl Embiggened Pompatus

    Location:
    Appleton
    Who said drag? I mentioned that those items add mass.
     
  3. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    Add mass to what? The pieces that activate the return sequence are not mounted on the arm.
     
    patient_ot likes this.
  4. coolhandjjl

    coolhandjjl Embiggened Pompatus

    Location:
    Appleton
    The return motor and associated mechanisms have to push against something like this which is permanently mounted to the tonearm (underneath the base)

    [​IMG]
     
  5. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    Not mounted on the tonearm, mounted on the spindle, or shaft. Big difference.
     
    patient_ot likes this.
  6. anorak2

    anorak2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Oh yes. The stop mechanism triggers as soon as it notices the tonearm moves faster, i.e. the first of the wider cut revolutions.

    Typically it never gets there. You miss those endless loop gimmicks like the Beatles did on Abbey Road (I think, right?) or Heaven 17 on Penthouse and Pavement (more relevant for my generation).
     
    Big Blue likes this.
  7. anorak2

    anorak2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    1960s technology. Automatic turntables of the 80s and onward used photoelectric sensors, a motorised tonearm lift, and a microcontroller. At least the good ones did.
     
  8. coolhandjjl

    coolhandjjl Embiggened Pompatus

    Location:
    Appleton
    It’s mounted to the exit tube. This certainly adds to the effective mass of the tonearm. How can it not? It’s attached. Tonearm designs are exercises in resonance control. That piece can only be problematic.
     
  9. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    Problematic? If properly designed and executed, not at all. We are not going to agree here so I'll say enjoy your music.
    :wave:
     
    patient_ot and coolhandjjl like this.
  10. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney

    That shows that you haven't seen many 80's turntables inside.
     
  11. anorak2

    anorak2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    At least mine is as described. Those that used mechanics for automatisation were technically outdated in the 80s.

     
  12. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    You are right, some turntables are not too bad and they can be a good compromise but the photo of the arm you have provided can sometimes cause a tremendous load on the cantilever of the cartridge. In some turntables it can even be seen with the naked eye that the cantilever starts bending towards the center of the platter.
     
  13. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    Well, a linear tracking Technics, is there anything else I have to say?
     
    anorak2 likes this.
  14. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    It was on Sgt. Pepper’s. :righton:
     
    anorak2 likes this.
  15. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    Yes, those bad Beatles, have you tried Her majesty in Abbey road, it was probably the same?
     
  16. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    That’s an actual track on the album, not a locked groove. Or have I somehow been missing a locked groove on Abbey Road all this time? :confused:
     
    Uglyversal likes this.
  17. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    No it was me, sorry! I was multitasking and I misunderstood your post. The reason I've mentioned is because -if memory doesn't fail me- Her majesty while not an endless loop is close to the end, near the center and many TTs auto return would have been triggered before or while getting to it. But I could be wrong, now I have doubts.
     
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  18. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Ah, that would make sense!
     
  19. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    Anyway it was a bad example, I've just grabbed a copy and there is plenty of dead wax after the track so the problem wouldn't be present unless the TT is completely out of wack.
     
    Big Blue likes this.
  20. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I think the medley seems longer than it really is, because, while it’s a bunch of songs, they’re all very short.
     
  21. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    True but not long enough for me, that album -specially that side- ranks among my all time favorites.
     
  22. anorak2

    anorak2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    I seem to remember there was some gimmick on Abbey Road as well, or is my memory failing?
     
    Big Blue likes this.
  23. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    You should look up optical sensors.
    And hall sensors.
    And capacitive switching.

    Not every turntable is fully mechanical, by a long shot.
     
  24. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    Exactly, but there were plenty budget players that still had those mechanics... outdated tech is cheaper.
    Even today, those cheap things like the ATLP3 semi auto’s are mechanical.
     
    anorak2 likes this.
  25. Adam9

    Adam9 Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    No "gimmicks" like the runout groove on Pepper on Abbey Road.
    Are you thinking of the gap between "The End" and "Her Majesty"?
     
    anorak2 and Big Blue like this.

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