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Do I have to decide between having an automatic turntable and a good turntable?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Oscillation, Apr 29, 2021.

  1. VapourTrailUS

    VapourTrailUS Well-Known Member

    Location:
    California
    Some of us have kids, a job, pets or sometimes need to go to the bathroom, which sometimes distracts us from key moments. Some of us also, in addition to doing "audiophile" listening to vinyl, like to use it as background music we can zone in and out of while doing other things. These are not unreasonable.
     
  2. Emergency Whiskey

    Emergency Whiskey Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    Clumsiness and good taste -- scary combination in a son.
     
    shades, luckybaer and Oscillation like this.
  3. luckybaer

    luckybaer Thinks The Devil actually beat Johnny

    Location:
    Missouri
    Every couple of months I text my kids with the following:

    “TRUE or FALSE - It is OK to touch any of Dad’s LP’s, 12” singles, 7” singles, CDs, SACDs, and cassettes.”

    “TRUE or FALSE - touching any of Dad’s audio gear is encouraged.”

    Haha... Even at 23 and 14, both answer False to each.
     
  4. shadowlord

    shadowlord Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austria
    in my opinion the best solution would be a serviced vintage Dual.
    Full auto and still great performance.
     
    sturgus, ssmith3046 and Radio like this.
  5. Oscillation

    Oscillation Maybe it was the doses? Thread Starter

    You know I always really loved my Dual turntables.
     
  6. bluesky

    bluesky Forum Resident

    Location:
    south florida, usa
    Manual TT only.

    The decisions should be what brand TT do you want, new or used, belt or Direct Drive, and what cart you want to use. :agree:

    If it's a used TT ... it must function perfectly and does it have its original headshell? If not, deduct the 'original used headshell' value from the price.

    My TT & favorite: 1980 Sansui SR-838. Just Perfect in every way. It's a high-quality TT, super heavy in weight (vibrations have zero effect), has a really strong quality motor, the 'Direct Drive' is dead quiet, has a wonderful 'S' arm and real gimble ... & the whole unit looks like it belongs on the Space Shuttle. :righton:
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
  7. Oscillation

    Oscillation Maybe it was the doses? Thread Starter

    Rega planar 1 plus, with the Q-tip thingy to lift up the arm?
     
  8. hifisoup

    hifisoup @hearmoremusic

    Location:
    Illinois
    Forget the turntable. Buy a streamer and subscribe to Qobuz, Deezer, or Tidal. No need to pick up or stop anything. Control via your phone app.
     
    rockin_since_58 likes this.
  9. Oscillation

    Oscillation Maybe it was the doses? Thread Starter

    No disrespect intended but, **** off :D
     
  10. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Dual TT's are perfectly fine. Just like other vintage audio gear, there are people that restore them.

    I had two main manual TT's. A modern upgraded Rega RP6 and a restored and upgraded Vinyl Nirvana, Thorens TD-160 Super, both with modern carts.

    I also have two vintage Dual's, which I absolutely love. No, the automatic Duals don't sound as good as the manual's do. But, so what? They sound good enough!

    While I won't use them to play my most pristine vintage records or my new audiophile remasters, they sound more than fine for 90% if my vintage albums.

    In fact, they sound more like what the records sounded like, way back when. I use vintage Shure V15 cartridges with elliptical styluses. Ortonon 2M Blue or Bronze would also be a good choice.
     
  11. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Location:
    Athens, Tennessee
    NO Tidal! (MQA is why). MQA is damaged goods. Degrades your audio. Own your music, play it when you want. If you stream, use Quobuz or Deezer.
     
  12. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Location:
    Athens, Tennessee
    P.S. Technics are out there in 220/50 Hertz versions. Much more reliable than most Denons save for a few models (Avoid the servo tonearm models, especially since few repair technicians know how to repair those, or similar Sony or JVC arms)
     
    patient_ot likes this.
  13. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Location:
    Athens, Tennessee
    Not aging very well, sadly. Automatic servo tonearm= Unrepairable when it fails you. Same goes for JVC and Sony models so equipped. Simplicity is a virtue with aging audio equipment. For the Denon's price, I expect reliable and repairable. Denon automatics are high risk purchases.
     
    patient_ot and Pinknik like this.
  14. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Location:
    Athens, Tennessee
    Agree. The SL-D2 may not be the best Technics DD (it is servo, like my SL-1500 manual turntable). But it is simple, reliable, and performs very well. The dust cover protruding plastic pieces are your main weakness. Many of these are still performing well for their owners, many years later (and that is today at that). Not bad for under $200 in 1980 money. A very nice, semi automatic which does nothing wrong.

    I use the Pioneer PL 518 semi automatic DD in one of my systems, the other has a Realistic/CEC LAB 300 belt drive semi automatic with a fine AC motor. None of the above get in the way of the last groove for me, even those cut very close to the label.
     
    patient_ot and rcsrich like this.
  15. Lenny99

    Lenny99 The truth sets you free.

    Location:
    Clarksburg WV
    I think there are several issues evolved. One issue is cost. Putting the time and engineering needed to make a audiophile type fully auto or even semi auto TT will add cost to the model.

    Another issue is reliability. It only takes a missed record edge and “how about that” for your stylus.

    The first TT I purchased as I returned to this hobby was a Sony LP300USB(?). I’m not sure of the model number but many are aware of the type. A fully automatic TT mostly plastic, a beginners TT. I upgraded the stylus, checked and adjusted for speed, added thick felt pads to the legs, and used those for balance. It didn't sound bad.

    However, it had this annoying habit of missing the arm rest on return after play, or when engaged, setting down too near the edge of the vinyl, occasionally missing the starting edge completely. A few of such incidents and I used it as a manual.

    Another problem I had with this TT, it’s start up system was very sensitive. Often, when cleaning the stylus it would start the play sequence. I had to use the up button and wait for it to play out.

    So, for me, I prefer a fully manual TT. As someone mentioned earlier when I’m finished with one side of a record, I’m going to get up and either turn the vinyl or remove it from the platter. I suppose I could doze off while listening or somehow become distracted and forget about the vinyl. I’m not sure how bad that is for a stylus. It just goes around in the last grove. It’s probably not the best thing, but I don’t think it’s as bad as missing an edge and falling into the area between the platter and the plinth.
     
  16. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    I'll go for the Sl1500 or any in that series over the SL D2 among several advantages the speed control is lot more accurate and second hand price is almost the same these days. I had several D2's and the lid also tend to break at the hinges.
     
    McLover likes this.
  17. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Location:
    Athens, Tennessee
    I can agree with this 100%, as I own and use one daily. And you can also buy an armboard and upgrade to any 9" arm you like. Do make sure your 33 1/3-Off-45 RPM switch is in top operating condition (a very hard to find part, mine I had to replace).
     
    Uglyversal likes this.
  18. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    The TT you are talking about is low grade rebranded junk from one of the big Chinese OEMs. It has nothing at all to do with a good vintage automatic. A good vintage automatic usually has the ability to adjust the mechanism to avoid these problems.
     
  19. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Amazing machines, but expensive fancy boat anchors when something goes catastrophically wrong. I passed on several at good prices.
     
    McLover likes this.
  20. Lenny99

    Lenny99 The truth sets you free.

    Location:
    Clarksburg WV
    Yes, I am aware of its source. However, most fully auto TTS today are of that type. I was simply trying to state why I prefer fully manual.

    I did own a Pioneer semi auto in the 80’s, but I can’t recall it’s model number. It functioned well.
     
  21. Oscillation

    Oscillation Maybe it was the doses? Thread Starter

    Thanks for all this information! The Beogram 4000 is what my dad had. If only one of us had the foresight to hang on to that stuff! By the way look at this

    https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/speakers/beogram-4000c
     
    manxman likes this.
  22. Nathan Z

    Nathan Z Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    I realize that everyone has different listening habits, but why are you putting an album on if you're going to leave the room? Also, who puts their record player in reach of their children? I thought everybody knew that's just a bad idea.
     
  23. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Just to be clear, no one is recommending OP a new full auto TT. There aren't any good ones, which is what I and others basically said.

    Your old Pioneer, whatever it was, is probably closer to what we were talking about.

    I don't mind a manual turntable and use one myself, but I have also used auto and semi-auto decks that work fine. If someone wants an auto deck, I'm not going to try to talk them into a manual TT.
     
    Bruno Primas likes this.
  24. Oscillation

    Oscillation Maybe it was the doses? Thread Starter

    First, out of reach, and children is oxymoronic. Second, I want, and encourage, my kids to enjoy music, Third, I don't fetishize albums, as that's normal listening mode. Finally, I realize that times have changed, but have you ever been to a party?
     
    jeffreybh and Michael Macrone like this.
  25. Nathan Z

    Nathan Z Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    I get the second one, but maybe it's too young if they're going to do some something wrong? Yes, I've been to a party (lol), but we don't play records. It's not like anybody is seriously listening to the music, so we just stream.
     

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