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Do I have to decide between having an automatic turntable and a good turntable?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Oscillation, Apr 29, 2021.

  1. manxman

    manxman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Isle of Man
    There are two issues I have with the Beogram 4000C. The first is that the restored turntables are actually Beogram 4002s. The second is the price – £9,500 – although an audio dealer I know has bought one that he intends to keep sealed as an investment, believing it will become hugely valuable in the future.
     
  2. Oscillation

    Oscillation Maybe it was the doses? Thread Starter

    Well yes that's generational thing. You can imagine perhaps, a party, where everyone is deeply tuned into the music but can't seem to divert their attention from the reflections on a disc, let alone distinguish where to drop the needle Those were great days for music, but horrible days for vinyl and cartridges :D
     
    trd and Nathan Z like this.
  3. Oscillation

    Oscillation Maybe it was the doses? Thread Starter

    Yeah there is zero chance anyway that I'm going to spend that on a turntable. I firmly believe I will figure this out, but it's an uphill battle when you have to go on the used market and try to find something that's both high quality and won't feel like a disaster when it needs a component you can't find.
     
    manxman likes this.
  4. manxman

    manxman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Isle of Man
    If you decide to go down the vintage B&O route, I'd talk to these people, whom I use regularly. Bremdal's owner Morten Kristensen (left in the picture) is one of the world's leading collectors of, and authorities on, their products.

    Bremdal Radio | Bremdal Radio | Brugt, klassisk B&O i høj kvalitet
     
  5. VintageVibe

    VintageVibe Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Joisey
    If you missed my previous post #32, check it out.
     
  6. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Too new for me to put any stock in, not sure that is OP's price point in any case.
     
  7. Oscillation

    Oscillation Maybe it was the doses? Thread Starter

    I'm not really prepared to go too far above 1k at this point.
     
  8. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    Than you’ll do something like this and continue your listening sessions on a different level:
     
    rockin_since_58 and Uglyversal like this.
  9. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Then forget about the new Thorens then. That's $2K. Not something I would personally recommend anyway.
     
  10. Adam9

    Adam9 Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I don't know about Innervisions but a record that has that feature is Arcade Fire's "The Suburbs" at the end of side 3. The first time I heard it on my manual turntable, it took me a few minutes to catch on that the record was over!

    I have an auto return Technics SL-Q2 that has lasted me over 20 years and it was used when I got it. A fully automatic used PL-600 I had only a few years before it died though.
    I bought a Pro-Ject turntable last year and while I have to remember to not be lazy and lift up the tonearm at the end of a record, I don't at all regret the purchase.
     
  11. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    I didn't realize it breaks, I think mine is good, at least for the moment.
     
  12. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    That is a very interesting video, I've often wondered about it myself but it is the first time I actually see a video dealing with the subject of being able to listen without ears. The reason that has been on my mind already is because at the volume I often listen to :angel: part of the music I listen enters my body in the form of vibrations. No, I am not kidding. While technically speaking he might be deaf, I couldn't consider him to be so and it is great to see he has managed to replace the ears in that manner.
     
    Nathan Z and Oelewapper like this.
  13. VapourTrailUS

    VapourTrailUS Well-Known Member

    Location:
    California
    I’m not saying it’s impossible, but I’d be genuinely interested in seeing a blind test between a reasonably good auto/semi auto and a $1k manual all other things being equal (cartridge, preamp, amp, speakers).

    Truthfully I don’t have enough experience to say what elements have the most effect on sound, but my very uninformed guess is that you could get a fine mid grade TT and go pretty far with the cart/preamp before you run into a wall. I’m giving them more weight. Probably because I have to to mentally justify my own mid grade TT.
     
    jtw likes this.
  14. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arizona desert
    I have three great automatic turntables bought from Bill at fixmydual.com over the years. A Dual 701, 1019, and 1229. If I had to keep only one it would the 701 but they're all keepers.
     
    Radio and patient_ot like this.
  15. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    If a semi-automatic is “automatic enough”, you should take a look at a well preserved Technics SL-23 or SL-23A.
    It was at the lower end of the Technics turntables back in the days (one of the few belt drives), but it’s better than most mid-range (~200 to ~500 bucks) turntables of today.
    Turns on when the tonearm is moved to the edge of the record.
    Lifts the cueing lever up at the end, returns back to the rest, and while powering off again, the cueing lever goes back down so the tonearm ends in the tonearm clip.

    The plinth is made of quite heavy MDF, but the platter rings like a bell, so it needs its thick rubber mat to dampen it.
    I sold one not too long ago (from my own collection - it was my second TT).
    Only 150 to 180 bucks in good condition.
    Nice price/performance.
     
    sturgus and patient_ot like this.
  16. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    You might find that if you conduct a test under the proper conditions and the correct equipment which needs to be capable to show differences you will no want to waste time in a blind test.
    I do however prefer to concentrate on the cartridge, cables and phono stage but everything and I mean everything makes a difference. That does not mean you can't enjoy what you have and that something is a lot better than something else, it could also be just different and on occasions some people might feel different about what sounds best.
     
  17. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    Yeah I found it quite impressive that it actually works that well for him!
    It’s also one of the reasons why I believe that subwoofers are more important than what meets the ear.
    Those inaudible frequencies can be felt, even in small rooms.
     
  18. Simoon

    Simoon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    The problem with auto, or even semi auto tables, the way I see it, is that they are not upgradable. One is 'stuck' with whatever arm is part of the table, for better or worse, by the manufacturer.

    When one gets a table then buys an arm for it, it is always possible to change out the arms to something better. Going from a 9" arm to a 12" arm for example.

    And if one still wants the convenience of having the arm lift at the end of the record, these are available for about $50. Just search Ebay or Alie Express for "Tonearm Lifter" or similar phrase.


    [​IMG]
     
    sturgus likes this.
  19. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    Yes, you need that pressure in the stomach and the shirt shaking to get the full effect LOL.

    [​IMG]
     
    Lenny99 and Oelewapper like this.
  20. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    JBL L100 all the way! :D
     
    Uglyversal likes this.
  21. Lenny99

    Lenny99 The truth sets you free.

    Location:
    Clarksburg WV
    Ok. That’s cool. I was just throwing in some info. I thought the OP was asking for advice.
     
  22. Lenny99

    Lenny99 The truth sets you free.

    Location:
    Clarksburg WV
    I used to love that add. It’s prob 40 to 50 years older. Was it for a tape or was it selling components.

    Do you remember “Is it live or is it Memorex”?
     
  23. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    It was a Maxell ad, I was confused, initially I thought it was for TDK. It seems they might have done a version for video tape but I am not sure it's real.

    [​IMG]
     
  24. Francois1968

    Francois1968 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Netherlands
    There are (half)automatic turntables, at least the ones that were manufactured in the golden age of vinyl, that sound absolutely fabulous...........There are people who are overthinking it so much. Very often the same people that have a problem listening to a $50 costing interconnect because only a $300 eliminates jitter.......If it sounds good to your ears, trust on them.
     
  25. Lenny99

    Lenny99 The truth sets you free.

    Location:
    Clarksburg WV
    Hey. By way of a coincidence, I got an ad from an online audio sales listing a Thorens Fully Auto TT. Cost about $900. It looks nice. Stats are fine. And they are a legit, good company. Model number TD102A
     

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