Do I have to decide between having an automatic turntable and a good turntable?

Just get a Luxman PD-375, have it serviced and you're set. A winner in the looks and sound department. One of the tables I could live with forever. Not dissimilar in sound to an LP12, but with better speed stability. ;-)

 

Oh yes, they are "legit", lol. There's a lot info available online regarding the back story. Gunter Kurten (CEO from Elac and Denon) took over in 2018. The Thorens TD 148a which I own, is rated the finest new fully automatic table on the market. The TD 103a and TD 102a are also part of the new lineup. The 102a comes with an onboard preamp.

 

I don't get it. These mechanisms only contact the arm before music starts and after it ends. There is no interference at all during play.

 

Not correct. How do you think the tonearm knows where the record starts and stops? Wouldn’t have anything to do with the fact that there is a large gear-like thing attached to the tonearm’s exit post underneath? And that thing has fittings that trip microswitches and other gears? And that thing, while permanently affixed to the tonearm’s exit post, adds mass, and really messes with your anti-skate?

 

the 102a is being advertised here for 790 CHF. I'm having trouble finding a review of it though.

 

On several occasions I toook the platter off my Sony. Just below the platter there was a flat gear like mechanism that fit around the spindle. If I remember, there was a slot and a spring included in that mechanism. When the arm reached the end of the record that flat gear revolved in a way that triggered the arm to move.

The first time I noticed it was when the TT arrived at my home after purchase. You have to attach the belt to the platter. And you were advised to check that mechanism to be sure it was properly aligned.

I don’t think that flat like gear moved the arm, it just triggered the gears which moved the arm.

I think higher grade autos like the Thorens may have a better, more sophisticated way to move the arm.

 

Truly are better off looking for vintage Technics.

 

That insures the platter is still or rotating, but underneath, their is a large cog-like thing permanently attached to the tonearm’s exit tube. It swings along in unison with the tonearm as it traverses across the LP. Not a good thing IMO. When it gets to the end of the travel, it triggers micro switches that set things in motion. It has to be this way, otherwise, how does the mechanism ‘know’ the tonearm is at the end? Thorens and others tried an optical sensor up on top, but it never worked as well as you would hope.

 

I am actively looking at those.

 

That really does sound ominous! Now you're scaring me back to the Rega with a q-tip thingy!

 

One of my decks is a Pioneer PL530 automatic from 1977. The quintessential 70’s era tt. DD, steady, quiet, a good dependable tt. But it’s only going to be so good because of the tonearm‘s limitations.

It doesn’t harm the stylus to stay in the runout groove until you get there. Doesn’t hit the paper label unless the LP was made improperly.

 

Ahhh...don't let him scare ya'.
And think hard before adding one of those springs on the table...and remember, it must be re-armed after each side.

 

Some turntables have the tonearm connected to the return mechanism during play, those are definitely bad indeed.
Some have a long bar attached to the tonearm, that, at the end of the record touches lever (or an electrical switch) that engages a cog, like putting a gearbox from neutral into gear.
That long bar adds some mass to the tonearm, so that could in theory be an issue.

However, I'm very certain that there are also turntables that don't have anything of significant weight attached, except for a tiny mirror or plate.
The mirror in combination with an infrared LED is used to measure the distance or angle, so that it knows where the tonearm is.
Based on the calibration done by the user, the tonearm return mechanism engages to put the tonearm back when a certain distance/angle is measured (i.e. the end of the record is reached).
The other type has a plate mounted to the tonearm with many holes, so the infrared LED "looks" (the phototransistor on the other side actually) how many holes have passed during the tonearm moving inward, and based on that, the decision is made to engage the return mechanism and return the tonearm.
Another way to make a frictionless auto-return tonearm that only adds some insignificant weight, is by using hall sensors and magnets.
The upside of that is that dust can't interfere, while with an optical system it can.
But the controller required for it is a bit more complex so it was a bit more expensive to make (it's quite simple for modern standards, but not back in the 70s).
That's why the optical solution is probably more common on older (semi)automatics.

Anyways, long story short, a freely moving tonearm without any significant weight attached can be made, and it has been done in the past.
I don't remember the brandname/type numbers that had these systems... you have to look that up.

 

Really? Well that's also super annoying.

 

I know. Then you have to position it correctly and affix it to the table.
Then if you decide it's not for you....hoping that removing it doesn't damage the finish or leave a sign behind that it was once there.

 

That thing actually gets great reviews and seems fairly available, plus it looks super cool!

 

Here’s what is underneath my Pioneer PL530 directly attached the the tonearm’s exit tube. Those two large screws tighten onto that exit tube. This part is around 4” long. There is even more stuff that mounts on top of this piece.





Here’s what’s under a Thorens TP11 tonearm on my TD166MKII.

 

I have one and would stay away. It's just too complicated and cart choices are very small as it's a P mount.

 

The sp-10 looks great but it's a bit pricey

 

Is it automatic?

 

It might have an auto lift for the arm and shuts the power to the motor with the arm staying lifted at the end of the record, some Thorens work that way.

 

There are some automatics that are surprisingly great performers. I have a rather inexpensive Technics SL-Q2 that can dish it out.

 

No!

 

I recently acquired a minty SL-Q2, right after I had just upgraded my SL-1200MK5 with the KAB fluid damper and Isonoe isolation feet, so not quite a fair comparison, but it's close. I compared both directly using the same VM-95ML and found the biggest draw back on the Q2 to be the plinth, which I think introduces a bit of grunge to the sound. But that can be fixed with some damping material, which I plan on doing. Anyway, I plan on keeping it because it is the perfect solution to my post-dinner and dishes routine when I just want to put my feet up and relax without having to jump up and flip after 15 minutes.

 

So you pay more and don't get the cool mechanism attached to the bottom that let's you push a button and play a record?