Do the more basic stylus shapes (conical and elliptical) cause records to get worn out quicker?

Vinyl sales peaked in 1978 at about 2 Billion per annum worldwide. What happened precisely in the 60's is a bit foggy because the USA only started collecting unit sales in 1973. However sales statistics are available for other global territories back to 1961, so a general comment is that between 1961 and the peak in 1978 the global sales increased by a factor of 2 to 2.5. There are no easily available numbers from pre-60's, although vinyl LPs and 45s were available during the 1950s.

I don't think there is much gear out there from the 70's that I would actually want to buy, candidly. I used to sell the stuff between 1972 and 1974 as a Saturday salesman in a hi-fi store - and only Quad, Leak, Garrard, Thorens, Shure and SME (and also the Acos Lustre arm) were worth a damn sonically. The rest was average quality stuff, much of it put into a faux piece of furniture (like the video some posts ago) and integrated an autochanger with average quality cartridge, radio, cassette deck and speakers. Or a design statement like Bang and Olufsen (and still is!)

The 1980's was a much better decade, with the emergence of Krell, Mark Levinson, Martin-Logan, Apogee and similar.

The Shibata was developed in 1971 (so actually just out of the 60's!) for the long defunct CD4 Quadraphonic records, which had a 45kHz carrier frequency that the stylus had to track - hence the narrow contact profile Shibata. But I agree that this early development of a non-elliptical profile pushed forward the development of a whole host of line contact profile stylii. But even those stylii push vinyl beyond its elastic limit, and cause some degree of plastic deformation of the vinyl. Not wear or mistracking as such - just sort of a polishing of the groove wall. I suspect that is behind the observation that after a few plays the background noise from the vinyl gets lower (ie it improves).

 

Um, jumping in here, you have read Art Dudley’s “Listening” column in this months (Jun) Stereophile I hope.

 

Interesting. This is his review of the cartridge that I use Listening #184: Zu DL-103 Mk.II phono cartridge

One of the big things in Denon's favour is that the stylus is exceptionally highly polished. If I could post images without opening an account at imgur or similar I'd send an image of mine.

Good photo here, about half way down the page USB Mikroskop?

And this is an electron microscope video of a stylus tracking a groove When you look at the scale of the cantilever and stylus compared to the groove, it is a miracle that vinyl reproduction works at all!

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This one?
Listening #186: Miyajima Saboten L phono cartridge

 

Love it, and on the day that a Shure SC35C is supposed to arrive at my doorstep. I'm excited to listen to a 4.5g conical. Will report back as I get used to its sound.

 

Yup. I totally agree.

 

Good point - maybe the original owner of my Monk record never replaced his needle and it wasn't the heavy tracking and conical stylus of his old console that did the damage, but the worn needle.

My Dad had a 1964 tube Sylvania console with a Garrard changer in it (How I wish I still had that console!). He listened to a lot of classical music and always kept the needle fresh. I have records that were handed down from family members that were played umpteen gazillion times on that old console and they still sound astonishing to this day. My W1 copy of Who's Next has some scratches for sure, but none of the surface noise you hear in that Monk record.

 

Yes

 

I think this situation problably accounts for the damage on most old records - absurdly long term use of cheap styluses (styli?) that were never replaced. I don't think my parents even knew they could replace the stylus on their "record player."

 

I have no memory of changing cartridges or styli on our old wooden console record player s a kid, ever. I grew up with records but had no idea that they could sound so damned good until I was 50 years old!

Oh, and tonight I mounted a brand new Shure SC35C, a veritable nail for many audiophiles, in all of its conical 4.5g VTF glory, and played the first Cars album. I had to head out for the evening so I didn't have long to listen, but it sure sounded nice right out of the gate. There was a "pop" and dynamism that really appealed to my ear. I also didn't see wild shavings of vinyl flying off of the record in the stylus' wake as it plowed through the grooves! More evaluation tomorrow but me likey so far.

I guess it's a bit ironic that one of the outfits most responsible for the race to lowest-possible VTFs produced this cart that seems like a huge winner at 4.5g.

 

I've always been a bit anal with record care right from the get go. At age 16 I bought a Garrard AP76 and Shure M75ED cartridge. Homemade speakers with EMI drive units and a homemade amp. Upgraded at age 17 when I worked in a hifi shop and could buy things at cost price (so half price) with a Thornens TD150, SME 2009 with fixed shell and a V15III. Upgraded the speakers to KEF B139/T27. And bought lots of records, all of which I still have. Used all the cleaning lotions and potions of the early 70's, and mucky records I got second hand I cleaned in the bathtub (we had really soft water, fortunately).

 

I would assert that you were among the very few who were so knowledgeable so young. I was a typical dopey American kid who loved music but didn't appreciate nor understand what was going on in music reproduction. It's impressive that you were aware enough at such a young age to care about the technical aspects of the hobby. Most of us were out there listening (or not) on crappy wooden or plastic junk players, fingers in noses so to speak, with jacked up arms and needles, comparing the sonic mud to the mistracking of our 8-tracks, dreaming of music without moving parts (digital).

The first time I heard a glimpse of good music reproduction was when I bought a portable (junk) FM receiver with stereo (!) headphones as a teenager. The unit was an Emerson I believe, craptacular and plasticky and only occasionally pulled in a strong signal, but when it did and the stars aligned, the stereo coming out of those little foam Koss-esque headphones froze me in my tracks. That was when I became aware of potentially good sounding music. Magic.

 

Different application. Shure designed the SC35C for AM and FM broadcast use, and where high performance, and durability both mattered. And where failure wasn't an option. This cartridge was designed to compete with the Stanton 500AL heavy duty (2-5 grams tracking force). And also aimed at disco use. There was lighter tracking force versions available, the last being the N35x stylus. The old SC 39C was the high end broadcast cartridge (the broadcast version of Era IV, and the M97 original family). I love SC35C for broadcast, for installation in record changers needing heavier tracking forces, for old heavy tracking broadcast tonearms, etc. Sad to see it discontinued, it is also loved by many MC high mass owners as a MM option for high mass tonearms.

 

Understood re: design goals on Shure's part, but Reichert was right-on when asserting that this is a great sounding cart, other considerations ignored. It may have been designed for ruggedness and commercial use but it shure (!) sounds nice in my Satisfy tonearm, even with the OEM nail tracking at 4.5g.

 

Agree too that this is a very excellent sounding cartridge which tracks well.

 

Don't forget taping a nickel to the top of the headshell to prevent skipping....

Due to my Dad's excellent Sylvania tube console and his love of classical music everyone in my family was fully aware of high fidelity music reproduction from a very early age. My older brothers and my father taught me how to handle record properly and how to use that Garrad. Some of the oldest records I own, such as an original copy of "Zenyatta Mondata" received for my 13th birthday (I think) still sound mint.

 

I got the bug when my folks bought me a record player for Christmas when I was maybe 10 or 11. Autochanger with ceramic flip over cartridge, and a two tube amp. Mono of course. The thing hummed right out of new, but introduced me to Sgt Pepper, Eric Burdon, Peter Paul and Mary, and some classical too. I clearly did not play these to death because (guess what?) over half a century later - I still have them. And they still sound darned good. In fact, I have several re-issues of Sgt Pepper including the latest re-master. And the original mono pressing I have from the first release sounds better than any of the others!

 

Finally a wise view.

 

The stylus is worn
All the records grind to dust
See my woeful tears

 

The prevailing dangers to a record's health are more about stylus defects, less about the stylus shape. Although the shape does vary in their loading on the groove wall, any well made stylus to high quality standards should be very safe on your records.

The conical, however, does not track well on the inner groove, especially highly modulated groove. The conical has this bad habit of pinch effect, and can not help that it does. The groove pitch is responsible, the angular "wiggle" of the groove that narrows between peaks, and so the conical gets squeezed upward or pinched. This upward movement is not part of the signal cut into the groove, thus produces distortion.

When we hear pinch effect distortion from a conical, I would say it's not causing audible damage damage on the first play. (but it could.. Pinch effect is mistracking, which an increase of stylus force does not cure) Repeated play may cause cumulative stress on the groove wall, (from pinch effect) which it may not completely recover.

RCA developed the Dynagroove record specifically to cancel pinch effect, as the inverse is cut into the groove. So, then, a Dynagroove plays with no IGD, (or shouldn't) when played on a conical stylus. It was good technology at the time. Dynagroove isn't sought after by audiophiles, since it will produce IGD on any premium stylus, ie: line contact or shibata. The stylus (non-conical) tracks the inverse pinch effect cut onto the groove, so even an unplayed Dynagroove will produce distortion with a line contact. Dynagroove produces best results on a conical.

But it's not all bad for the conical. Worn records can play more cleanly on a conical, sometimes. A larger or smaller stylus can "hit" the good part of the groove. The early vintage LP's were cut for a 1 mil conical, so these sometimes play with the fidelity and sound intended by their design, a fat, nice full sound. That aside, lightly cut records play fine, usually as long as the record isn't cut too hot. The outer to middle bands aren't usually a problem for the conical, since the groove pitch isn't as acute. Likewise the lighter cutting has more gentle groove pitch, therefore minimal to almost no pinch effect. Of course, this type of cutting is subject to more "surface noise" as the signal isn't as loud, and the shallower groove more susceptible to surface scratches.. which could be audible.

So, this is why the conical can be fussy about some records, and track others just fine. The lighter cuttings are better, and the outer to middle bands usually play without sibilance nor distortion. The music program makes a difference, usually a less complex waveform (and less radical groove shape) will track fine on a conical.

Regardless of stylus shape, the fast track to record destruction is a cheap stylus. The enemies of records are many, such as dirt and abrasion, static charge which attracts dirt (and lint from clothing) A worn stylus will definitely chew up a record. Also a bent cantilever isn't your friend, neither is cantilever lean, nor stylus lean. The cantilever suspension can fatigue, and then the stylus misalign with the groove.. not good! The anti-skate can help prevent cantilever lean.

Least of all, heavier tracking up to 4 grams or so does not necessarily damage a record. But.. tracking forces less than 2 grams are better, much better. The tracking force in itself isn't the issue.. Lighter tracking almost to a fault will be a more compliant cartridge/ stylus assembly, and thus will always be easier on the records. Old ceramic cartridges can be stiff from age and non-compliant, miserable old things that should be thrown away. Even new ones can be hazardous to a record's health. Exceptional are some higher quality ceramics, with a fresh conical stylus. I have one, an NOS GE stereo ceramic (it's on my RCA SHF-8 in storage.. forget the GE number) but.. it is highly compliant, tracks at about 4 grams. I've tested it on a new styrene stereo 45, spot played it 20 times or so, and the surprising result was no damage, crazy! Even so, I would not risk playing one of my NM records from my collection.

Most certainly the premium stylus shapes exert lower pressure on the groove, and much higher resolution. The more expensive styli are polished, nude mounted, feature lower mass cantilevers, which translates to almost limitless record life, and the highest fidelity sound.

just some observations and opinions,
Steve VK

 

but so sad

 

Thanks for the detailed explanation specifically with the Shure V15vXMR. I have tried using the N97xE stylus into the V15vXMR and the sound is gorgeous.