Do UK dealers overrate their LP's?

I've come to the point where I've decided to just pay what ever is required to get those last few albums that I want to complete a collection. Recently I've purchase some pretty pricey pressings from Canada, France, Germany, Holland, UK and the U.S. The only only ones that I've been disappointed with are the UK.
I'm not talking from some indiscreet EBay seller but rather from what appeared to be a reputable UK sites.
I've never have had much luck dealing with UK EBay sellers but it appears that UK sellers tend to overrate vinyl in general. Do most of you find this to be the norm?

 

If you only listen to the opinions of people on this website, they'll tell you that 95% of all ebay sellers - no matter the country - is a complete dolt who doesn't know anything about vinyl. Of course, that's not exactly reality.

So yes, I've got plenty of quality albums that came from the UK. If you want the most consistency when buying albums, Japan is the place for that.

 

They tend to over grade.

And they tend to loosely use the term "original pressing".

 

All dealers seem to, a NM- is a VG, at best, ya' gotta' know how to interpret.

 

The big thing is that UK sellers use a different grading system than the US Goldmine system.

NM (Near Mint) should mean the same in both US and UK. I've experienced sellers from both sides of the Atlantic who abuse this grade.

Ex+ (Excellent plus) in the UK is basically equivalent to a strong VG+ Goldmine (sometimes called VG++ or Excellent by US sellers).

Ex (just plain "Excellent") in the UK is the grade that most US buyers don't seem to understand. Ex UK is the same as VG+ to a typical US dealer. In other words, a record with some scratches and crackle, but no skips. Not up to audiophile quality, like I know the OP and myself prefer.

More confusion: anything VG "very good" in the UK means "trashed but maybe barely somewhat listen-able". Kind of like US seller's VG to VG-. Anything VG in the UK means this, including VG+ or VG++++ or whatever. Anything VG in the UK scale is not going to satisfy a collector or audiophile in my experience.

All the lower grades below VG represent total junk regardless of the country of origin in my experience, and are not worth messing with.

 

YEs, as noted above
the discrepancy between the US Goldmine ratings and the UK Record Collector ratings
cause nothing but grief.

 

Yes, I think it is because they know that their records were originally of higher quality than other countries, so they must think that they can get away with a EX+ grade on a VG LP. Almost always two full grades over graded. I had to stop the crazy madness and not buy my LPs from the UK. Even a MINT UK copy of Bowie's Hunky Dory which looked near mint had a couple too many ticks or pops for me. And then shipping costs added = forget it.

 

Beware Beatles LPs from UK dealers. You need to see a picture of the label spindle hole at a minimum. The British also seem to have had tonearms in the 50s and 60s that maximized innergroove wear. Classical albums though are usually quite accurately graded. Since UK pressings have arguably the best average sonic quality you have to go hunting them despite the crocodiles lurking. I would recommend the faint of heart to search for early Canadian pressings as they sort of follow British traditions of mastering albeit in slightly lesser quality.

 

I have experienced a lot of pretty unbelievable overgrading from UK sellers and dealers, and a few that were just fine. I don't like to smear groups with the same brush, because it seems unlikely to me that a whole country of record dealers can be similar, but at this point I am much more careful in purchasing LPs from the UK. I don't like to say it, but considering how much shipping is, and then the price of trying to ship it back to UK makes it not worth it usually, and how often the album is misgraded, I have come to the conclusion that even if it costs more to purchase a rare UK pressing here in the US, it's probably worth it in the end, and a lot less hassle.

 

I've never bought LPs from the UK but my buddy in NJ always said UK & Australian dealers were the worst thieves on the planet when it came to vinyl. Some of the examples he showed me were truly shocking: the grading disparities were no accident caused by different rating systems.

(When I started selling CDs from here at the dawn of eBay I experienced a LOT of out-and-out distrust until I had a decent rating...seems Australian CD sellers already had a reputation as fly-by-nighters lol)

 

UK dealers i have had no problem with , it's the car boot / salvation army vendors that ruin it , just received a batch of 7
records from some idiot in Devon who decided to hide the torn covers of the 2 Joe Jackson records i bought , they were
graded at nm/nm . I complain , win the paypal case but have to send them all back , even though 5 were decent , i am
not spending an extra $30 sending them back for a $50 refund , seems pointless . As a ebay customer in Australia it
sucks , they don't seem to realize how long it takes to get stuff here , often the 45 day complaint limit runs out and
you are left up **** creek without a paddle .

Australian dealers are worse .

 

I have the same experience as you so I stopped buying from UK Sellers on Ebay and I am very wary of UK dealers on music stack and other sites. It seems to me that many UK sellers grade everything as 'EX' and that to me is a no go, because I know I'll be unhappy with the condition of the record. I have had some good transactions with UK dealers of course, but like every country you really have to know who you are dealing with and whether NM/M- is actually that or just VG.

Germany can be patchy enough too so you have to tread carefully. Another OP mentions Japan as the most consistent source of quality used vinyl and while that is true in many cases don't think for one moment that there aren't sellers there who'll grade incorrectly also! I know it because I have been adversely affected by it! The age old advice is to find a good seller in whatever country who understands vinyl grading and applies that knowledge accurately and stick with that seller for your purchases. When you 'float' around from one seller to the next, that is when the problems arise, in my experience.

 

Yes, true, for instance the A1-B1 code does not mean necessarily a first pressing, sometimes the LP is on its third or fourth reissue on another label.

 

UK grading is very poor in my experience. Japan is always superb with Germany/US a not too distant 2nd. Oh, and Korean sellers are very good too.

 

I am in the UK and can sympathise with a lot of your stories. I mentioned on here a few days ago how I sold my EX- original of Blonde on Blonde to a record shop. It was well played and had quite a few spindle marks and when I returned the next week they had it on their wall described as mint. I also bought an EP from a huge internet dealer, described as near mint. The sleeve was dog eared and it was tatty. When I called up to complain, unbelievably, I was told it was "near mint for its age" because it was at the time 30 years old. Conversely. A few years ago I saw some Dylan UK first pressings described as excellent from a seller in the US. They were very cheap so I took a risk and thought what the hell. They were all beautiful, better than described. Similar condition originals here in the UK would have been advertised at ridiculous prices that I would never pay. The thing about first pressings is true also, its not hard to work out which is a first pressing or not with all the info on the internet these days, but I have lost count of the times I see 70's pressings of 60's LP's being described as first issues. Like people are saying, you can't tar us all with the same brush. Back in the days before Ebay, when I would buy from Record Collector, I got to know some very reputable and honest people who could find some amazing records and did not over charge or over grade, but its a shame there are sharks out there. I feel doubly sorry for people outside the UK, who have to pay more for postage, and for whom returns will be harder and are at the mercy of long waiting times and perhaps customs charges, to then be disappointed with their purchases, its not right.

 

Agree. It's as if the new millennium definition for original pressing has come to mean "not a recent reissue."

 

The last 12 months I have been on a vinyl kick!
I have bought a stack of stuff from ebayers around the world. My thoughts would be:
- A handful of UK ebayers are very honest and grade accurately
- most UK ebayers overgrade - tbh I havent received anything I'd say was awful/unplayable but there's afew that will get recycled or never played again!
- US ebayers are about the same probably dont overgrade on the same scale as their UK counterparts but still do nevertheless!
- Japan mostly accurate grading and usually pleasantly surprised at the no click/pop vinyl

I now have a list of sellers that I use regularly that I know what they mean by their grades... other than that I will still take a chance but unless its a total success then they dont make the list

 

No detailed picture that I can zoom in on, no sale.

We've all been burned. But I don't get burned much.

ccm

 

When I lived in Sweden, you could rely on all the records in stores being Ex or Near Mint condition, and if they weren't, they were in the bargain box. Sometimes you would get near mint 80s records in the bargain box as well, due to them not being that valuable anyway. I was shocked to find in the UK the system is different. A full priced record may well be VG, and the bargain box records are often trashed. Across The Tracks in Brighton is one to avoid, on the few occasions I've bought vinyl from there it's been VG- and they don't even grade their records. The Wax Factor, in contrast, has sold me original Beach Boys records for dirt cheap because of slight crackle.

I sell on eBay and always playgrade. My grading system is:

If there's no audible crackle, skips or pops, its Ex. It might have the odd light scratch or scuff, so I would never grade as Near Mint.
If there's a tiny amount between songs but nothing that's frequent or audible over the songs, it's Ex-
If there's more constant crackle and more scuffs it is VG, or VG- if slightly worse.
If the crackle is omnipresent but the record is still just about audible it's G or below. I generally wouldn't sell a record in this condition unless it was rare.

I always try to be as honest as possible as I hate getting ripped off.

You get a lot of ebay sellers who list things as being in Good Condition, that doesn't always mean G. And yes, avoid 'good for its age' listings like the plague.

 

I get my vinyl 50/50 from the States and the UK - and I must say that when a US seller says NM or EX it is - Ive had some spectacular US pressings come over. LP's from the UK however are almost always better pressings and when you can find a NM or EX UK original it is a very satisfying experience.
I wholeheartedly agree about sticking with one or 2 or 3 dealers and establishing a relationship. I basically get all my vinyl from 1 or 2 guys and have got to the stage now where I can actually put in an order for what I want when they go shopping! (As they already have everyting I want!)

And the spindle hole grading system works for me too, inners as well - if the inner is wrecked then the disc is most likely the same.

 

It doesn't matter where you live. A good majority of the dealers on Ebay are honest, and know how to grade an album. It's the estate sale & garage sale crowd you have to be careful with. Just check the feedback to see if they sell albums on a regular basis, and if they don't be careful. If they sell records for a living, they probably are trying to grade it right.
I have actually received some great deals from sellers who had no idea how to grade. I just gambled and it paid off.
The bottom line is if you are dealing with someone overseas and they screw you, it's a lot harder to recoup your money because of shipping costs.

 

Fock yes!

I've received a few from the UK that were described as "Glossy, Look Unplayed" etc., and when they arrive they look like someone ice skated on them.

And returning them costs a fortune in shipping (to say nothing of time).
.

 

Just received an lp from Germany, 100% feedback so I took a chance, all I can say is wow! superb packing 10 days to get it, not bad at all, spot on grading, he will def go into my saved seller list

 

It`s all about the feedback rating. If a seller has 1 negative feedback out of 1000 that claims innacurate grading, then i assume that seller overgrades everything. Especially UK sellers. If the seller has 100% positive feedback and several "item just as described" comments, I feel fairly safe in bidding. It`s always a gamble, though. That postage cost is the killer. If a UK seller charges more than 8 or 9 pounds for shipping, I don`t bother.

 

The one's that annoy me, one in particular is a seller that posts "It's a record" no grade what-so ever , the guy from Germany only charged me 4 USD for shipping, signed, the lp might have been inflated to help cover shipping costs